Behind the Beard with William Lee Golden

Mm. Hey, this is Larry the Cable Guy. You are listening to Hope for the Caregivers with Peter Rosenberg. And if you're not listening to it, you're a communist. Eater died.

Welcome to Hope for the Caregiver. I am Peter Rosenberger. This is the show for you as a family caregiver. We're glad to have you with us. Part of what I like to do on this show is to introduce you to people and stories that I find inspiring and insightful.

I maintain that while we do our task as caregivers. And those things can be unique. The issues we struggle with in our hearts are common to the human condition: fear, obligation, guilt, remorse, resentment, despair. All of those things are common to the human condition. And so that said, I look for individuals who have faced those things and lived to write about it.

and learn from them and one of those individuals is with me today He may be the most recognizable guy in the entire entertainment business. And that is William Lee Golden of the Oak Ridge Boys. He joined the group in 1965. He's got a new book out called Behind the Beard. The autobiography.

Now, in honor of him coming on today, I just didn't shave. But it does. I'm glad to have you with us, William Lee. And I appreciate you very much being with me today. Peter, it's great to be with you.

And I commend you on the great work you do to help families that need help.

Well, we cover a lot of territory in this. Show. We deal with folks who are taking care of special needs children. We deal with folks who are taking care of aging parents and folks who are dealing with alcoholics and addicts or people in my case, my wife, who had a traumatic event. Uh, back of actually, you probably know where this is.

You've been on the road so many times, right there at the Paris-Camden exit off of I-40. Towards West Tennessee. Back in 83, she had this terrible wreck and they took her over to Benton County. And they couldn't do anything with her. And they immediately got her to Nashville and brought her to St.

Thomas there. That's where most of the work was done to help put her back together.

So, our journey in Tennessee was a long journey there, medically speaking. But I got your book on Monday and I read through the entire thing, and it was. I finished it late that night. And I was really quite moved by some things, William Lee. And I wanted to talk with you about it.

I've read a lot of biographies and autobiographies in my life. And this one was unlike any that I'd ever read. It felt more like a letter. From a family member and friend who said, Hey, Here's some things that need to be said, some things that I felt like you would want me to say to you. And there was no self-aggrandizing.

There was no axe to grind. It was real matter of fact and to the point. Is that what you had in your mind when you wrote it? Is that who you are? Did I get that right?

You're right. It's exactly right. Scott England had talked to me. six or seven times he had asked me about writing a book. On me.

And I said, Scott, I don't know that anyone would want to buy a book on. you know me whatever I am. And I said, you know, I'm just a baritone singer and singing harmony with the Oak Ridge boys. I'm the guy that kind of fades into shadows back there. Um He said of William, I've followed you all a long time.

He said, You've got a story to tell, and I'd like to help you tell it.

So I said, okay. Anyhow, uh He had talked to one of my sons, and he called me and said, Dad, Scott's here. And he said, I think it's time for you to write. You need to talk to him. And so I said, Scott, come on down.

I was down to the farm in Alabama for about a week and a half.

So I said, I'm here for another few days if you want to come down and before I get back to Tennessee. And he said, yeah.

So he and his wife came down the next day. They uh Talked to me. They interviewed my first wife. They interviewed my sister. I took them out in the farm where I was born and raised.

to the spot I was born on, that uh where The Dr. Tippin that came from Bruton out to deliver me at home and uh. Aaron Tippin's great-grandfather. That's right. Isn't that great?

It is, and it's it was amazing when I found out that he was actually kid, that that was his. Great-grandfather, or grandfather, or something. And what he did is he was a doctor in Bruton and Back then, you know, doctors for foreign people, you know, they didn't. They couldn't. Go and stay in the hospital for a week waiting on a baby, but he would.

He came out and spent the night there. Had a pallet they made for him, and he stayed there and delivered me the next morning when I finally did come.

So I, you know, that's the story that I heard, and I, but I took. I took Scott there and showed him where I came. Um but This he came to the home that I grew up in. My mother and dad built that home. We still have it.

I still. Have it there and must And my kids, and where they spent their summers. And So Scott came down. I said, Scott, you can talk to anybody that knows me. My ex-wife.

Mm-hmm. my partners my singing partners that and uh I said, you know. Our breakup. How it all went down. You can discuss these things with them.

Don't get my side of the story, get their side too. You know, we're looking at truth. They're looking through their eyes, I'm looking through my eyes.

So let's get the truth here.

So that's what. I wanted him to get the truth. Of whoever it is I am, I have a real simple background and uh. Yeah. Learned to play music when I was real little.

My sister and my mother taught me when daddy was. working at the shipyard mobile when I was real little and uh Music was what? Lit our home through a little battery radio.

So that's where I got started. I think that's a remarkable thing that you did was to include. Various individuals who, I mean, not many people will put their ex-wife in their own book. And that says a lot about your journey. And that's one of the reasons I wanted to have you on my show because so many of the people I deal with.

William Lee are struggling with resentment. In bitterness and unforgiveness. They find themselves in a situation where they're taking care of a family member, but the other family members aren't helping, or they're mad at themselves, they're mad at God, they're, you know, whatever. And one of the goals that that I have for myself and my fellow caregivers. is that one day You know, when we do stand at a grave, and hopefully I'm the one standing, I don't want my wife to have to go through what she goes through without me there.

But we'll stand there without clenched fists. And How do we do that? What does that look like? And you've had some things in your life where I've seen people be. Consumed with bitterness over far less than what you've dealt with.

Some of it, your own mistakes, some of it, others that whatever, but I've seen people be consumed with bitterness. And there's a scene in the book where you went down to Bruton after a particularly difficult time. And you brought some trees back up to your place in Sumner County. And you planted those trees, and with every tree you planted, you also buried a grudge there. Talk about that a little bit, Willie.

Why was that important? What did you get out of that? And how is something that we can adapt in our own lives that you learn from that?

Well, it was a time when I lost my father. And uh I planted some trees there home too, you know. Uh on the farm and uh But I brought a poplar tree here, and I brought magnolia trees and. uh brought some pine trees and uh Yeah, grudges are something you can't carry. If you carry grudges around, it's like carrying a big bat of acid.

You dip a little here, you dip a little there. And first thing you know, it spills on you.

So you get eat up with your own grudge. If you're not careful.

So it's something you can't be carrying with you. Glad these are things you've got to leave somewhere behind. Wow. It's Everyone has to You know, if we if we ever want forgiveness sometimes, it's Are we a forgiving person? Truly are we and are we or not?

We have to answer those questions ourselves. Are we honest with ourselves? Are we deceiving ourselves? Yes. That's another question that people need to ask themselves, you know, when we're looking at the mirrors.

Are we looking at the mirror of the guy that Is closing the door on his future? Is he blaming everybody else for where he's at today when he's not happy and down and? Uh do we see the real guy? Are we again deceiving ourselves, trying to be what we think everybody else wants us to be, but yet we're not being who we are? You know what's well.

As you were planting those trees, when you finished your last tree and you knew you had planted those grudges with the trees, you said, I'm done with this. I'm not going to carry this anymore. Yeah. What did you feel like? It's um Hey, you lift the burden off of you of a grudge.

A grudge is heavier on you, really, than it is anybody else that you're holding against. You're the one holding it. You're not giving it away, you're holding it.

So why hold it? If it hurts you in the beginning, why are you still holding on to it? Let it go. We all wake up. Every day is a new day.

To be who we are today. Yesterday is yesterday. Today is a brand new day. And we don't live on yesterday's laurels. Today we gotta prove.

Are we? what we thought we were, can we do what we You know, I have to activate myself every day. I do exercise, uh I go on walking. I feed the deer around here. There's a lot of things that I do every day, but I'm active and I go on long walks.

At my age, If I don't activate myself, I sit around and start getting negative. and to me to step away from it and go Take your steps to get away from it. It puts you in a positive mood. Wow. I do 150 sit-ups a day.

And I've done it for a while. And it's I did it mainly on the roads when I was singing because it helps. Get your diaphragm built. It gets your breath. Go in and uh anyhow.

You got to motivate yourself to walk away from negative things. And when you go on a walk, you're actually. Putting your own system in a positive mood. We're made. To hear it.

We're made to be active if we're fortunate if God made us. whole than were made. to be active in the war. You know, the push-button world with automobiles and things that came in the past hundred years or so.

So. We're all accustomizing. to how fast the world is moving. And sometimes we lose touch of reality in the process of we get distracted on too many things that are. take us away from what our true purpose is.

And you know that and the work you're in. One of the reasons we moved out to where we are now, and we left the city, and we moved way out here. Wilderness of Montana. We're backed up to national forests. And so I will.

I'll periodically just treat myself to a walk. in the middle of the day, you know, at lunchtime or so, just to clear my head. and i i get that and walking's free by the way walking is set up You don't have to go to a GM to get it.

So Now sometimes I will cheat and get on a horse. Churchill used to say, There's nothing wrong with the inside of a man that the outside of a horse can't fix. I would concur that. Hey, by the way, this is a totally separate thing here. You're You got into art for a lengthy period of time, and then you switched over to photography.

And that's a story that people need to read on what happened with that. Are you familiar with a lot of Western artists? Uh Remixon and People like that are modern day. There's a What about a guy named Zabel? Um Did you ever know how to Larry Zabel?

Well, he lived right across the dirt road from us. And that's one of his paintings behind me there. Uh it's called Dog Tired and the cowboys carrying the uh The dog on his saddle with him. And I didn't know if you knew him or not, but I looks kind of like a Remington. It has that Remington style.

Well, he is a wonderful Western artist. They've got a huge thing he did down at Yellowstone out at the lodge. And just a prolific artist from That settled and retired in this area and kept painting, but he painted, he lived right across the road, just a great friend, Z-A-B-E-L. If you ever get a chance to look him up, and it's he passed away a couple of years ago, just a wonderful artist. I I started following you on social media with your Pictures that you were taking.

And I remember the first time you liked one of the pictures I put out of Montana. And I was like, William Lee liked this, you know, because every day I hear, but you fell in love with this country. Uh, over your, I mean, you put, I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of miles. On you, and you've seen this country. And I wrote an article about America, when we moved out here, it said America is more beautiful.

than than the politicians in Washington, D.C. understand. And if you got outside of this and saw America, you guys have seen America in ways that very few people have. Would you talk a little bit about? What happened with you guys when you went with Roy Clark to the Soviet Union.

And then where we are now. Because I think there's important life lessons people need to hear from.

Okay, it's you ask, I tell you what I saw and learned. What I saw and learned in in the Soviet Union. And I'm a farm kid growing up in South Alabama. But what you see over there. No one owns a farm.

No one owns a house. No one owns a car. No one owns a refrigerator in your home. No one owns Anything? The government owns everything.

And communism, the government owns everything and he owns every person. And if you Don't agree with them. Of you're eliminated in one way or the other. And so communism is a. It's they take all of your freedoms, not just part of your freedoms.

And so that's what we saw there. And why do we sit down? And what's happening here is there's a whole side of iron political spectrum. that certainly coddles that type of thing that the government is supposed to replace God. It's replaced your churches because they don't want that 10% going there.

The government wants to own all of your money, all of your everything, your home, your car. And if you don't like it, Because you know, these people told us. We were there. They said, hey. You can, if you need a new refrigerator.

You can apply for it. But it may be just according to how far up in the Communist Party you are, and who else you've helped. Hatchet before. If you get it quick or not, because it can be on a waiting list, it can be in three to five years. Yeah.

get a refrigerator that's not working and from that. You have to apply for everything. You cannot leave Nashville and go to Montana without you tell. a government official exactly why you're going there. And who you're going to see while you're there.

The purpose of that, and it's a whole, it's the uh Total control of the person, the mind, the body, everything. And, you know, I may not have anything. But I have my freedom of. Speech, I have the freedom of mind.

So far, I can tell you what I think. You know. We're owned a freedom of speech here, place. But there's a lot of people that don't want to hear that. But that's what.

I saw in Russia. I saw what communism is. And I found out what communism is. Communism is a scourge on society. And yet we have in this great nation.

And I know how you guys at the Oaks feel about this country. And I know how your fans feel about this country and this great nation. We have people now screaming. For the very thing that you saw with you, you were just aghast by it when the KGB came busting into your song. They wanted you to change the lyrics of your song.

And we got people wanting us to do that now: changing songs and changing TV shows and getting rid of stuff and all that. And it's heartbreaking to see this. I see people pushing back on it. I wonder if we've been asleep at the wheel for too long, though. I think people have been asleep.

This country is. They don't know the truth about what the other side is, what they're flirting with. They're flirting with disaster. And is exactly what it is from my point of view. And I have just a guess.

It is not that I'm a selfish guy. I'm a giving person. Uh you give your time, you give your whatever it is you have. you can share. Uh What's People don't ask me these questions that you're asking me about what I saw, what I see here, and what I saw there.

But uh That's exactly. And I've not discussed this with anybody other than my friends. But you're the only person at a public forum that's asked that question.

Well, and it's my show, and I'm going to ask. And I'm not going to be sentient because I love. I love this country and I and I. deeply concerned about what's happening and i listen to these people crying out For things that they have no concept. of what this is going to mean for them.

And if we don't stand up and say something. That's on me. I can't change it. By myself, but I could be responsible to say something. And so I am.

And I was really struck. I mean, I was just a kid when you and Roy Clark, when you and the Oaks and Roy Clark went over there. What you think? In of itself, it is an extraordinary event that you guys even went back in the 70s. Because people have no concept today of what it was like back in the 70s in Russia.

In the Soviet Union. In fact, we got people today who don't even know what the Soviet Union even means.

Well, it was an iron curtain. The Soviet Union was the ultimate Socialist. The United Socialists. Whatever, I forget, but. It was socialism.

Total socialism and communism. And What happens with communism? They finally run out of people to rob.

So then they want to rob their neighbor and turn them into it. They want to bully them and kill them and take their wealth. And that's where communism is. They've run out. They robbed.

They have no one else to rob in their own country, so then they want to rob their neighbors.

So that's a feeding of. Evil to me. I look at the way this country was founded. It came so much out of the Reformation. Back with Martin Luther and these others who recognize that men cannot be the final authority on their lives and on society.

We have to have an authority greater than our own opinion, which is God's word, which is our faith in God. And that Cursed over, I mean, C-O-U-R-S coursed over the northern part of Europe and into Great Britain and down into our country. But so many other countries said, no, we can figure this out ourselves. We can't figure this out ourselves. That's why we need God.

That's, you know, we were never intended to figure it out ourselves. And when you get communism and socialism, the first thing they want to do is get rid of anything that has an authority greater than the state. And I don't answer to the state. I answered Almighty God. And so this is what I'm concerned about.

You're right. It's without God in it, none of us would be here. I mean, it's. If you walk out your door, if you can't believe in God, then. You're not looking for it.

So that's the whole deal.

Well, I walked out the other night to walk the dogs, and it was nighttime out here. And you know, there's a reason they call it big sky out here. And I looked at the stars, and we live at 6,000 feet. And going up, and I looked at the stars, and there were so many of them. I felt like I just reach up and grab them.

And that's when you go into, oh, Lord, my God. When I awesome wonder, consider all the world. You can't help it. He said, Your whole then sings my soul. How many times have you sung How Great Thou Art in your life?

How many counted? No, I wouldn't have any idea, but it's still one of the great songs. It's reasonable. how great they are. Oh Lord my God.

So it's Dark soul. With a great You're speaking to the creator, so. My wife can't walk very well because she's got two prosthetic legs and all of her stuff going on, but she can snowmobile. You can sit and she'll ride that. And I took her out.

in the forest one time and we were out on the snowmobiles and I turned the sleds off. And there was nobody out there but us. I mean, we're pretty remote. And we're way back in this snow-covered wilderness. And then, and Gracie's a wonderful singer, and she just lifted her hands and she just sang that.

Then sings my soul, my savior God, to thee. And you could just hear it reverberate around in these snow covered, where we were. I mean, it was just one of those kind of moments that I thought. Man, it doesn't get any better than this right here. I'm so sorry.

I just love that. I'm going to take a quick break here. We're talking with William Lee Golden. His new book is called Behind the Beard. It's a fabulous book.

You've known him. He's one of the most recognizable individuals in all the entertainment business. We'll be right back. Peter Rosenberger, he's not a preacher. But he's got great hair.

Hey, this is Peter Rosenberg. And in my three and a half decades as a caregiver, I have spent my share of nights in a hospital. sleeping in waiting rooms, on fold out cots and chairs, even the floor.

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Have you ever struggled to trust God when lousy things happen to you? I have. I'm Gracie Rosenberger, and in 1983, I experienced a horrific car accident, leading to 80 surgeries and both legs amputated. I questioned why God allowed something so brutal to happen to me, but over time, my questions changed, and I discovered courage to trust God. That understanding, along with an appreciation for quality prosthetic limbs, led me to establish Standing With Hope.

For more than a dozen years, we've been working with the government of Ghana in West Africa, equipping and training local workers to build and maintain quality prosthetic limbs for their own people. On a regular basis, we purchase and ship equipment and supplies, and with the help of inmates in a Tennessee prison, we also recycle parts from donated limbs. All of this is to point others to Christ, the source of my hope and strength. Please visit standingwithhope.com to learn more and participate in lifting others up. That's standingwithhope.com.

I'm Gracie. And I am standing with hope. I'd rather have Jesus. Then shit. Silver grown my brother Bee-hee.

Then have Richie. Leaves untold. Like weather How Jesus Then how? Houses are land. At risk.

Be blessed. By his name. Pierced hand. Then to me. Welcome back to Hope for the Caregiver.

This is Peter Rosenberger. This is the show for you as a family caregiver. How do we face these things? How do we deal with the things down in our soul? If our soul is troubled, if our hearts are a train wreck, guess what?

Our wallets, our relationship, everything about us, our careers, our bodies will be train wrecks as well. It starts on a heart level, on a soul level. And I look for folks who can help me see this better.

So that I can be strong and healthy as I take care of someone who is not. One of those individuals is William Lee Golden. I just finished his book, Behind the Beard, and it is an extraordinary tale of someone who has faced some very difficult things. and live to write about it. But not in a way that is self-promoting, but is matter of fact.

Here are some principles that I want to make sure are written down before I leave this earth, kind of thing. And that's when I got the feeling of this. And William Lee, when I was reading this, I was telling this to actually to Kathy Harris yesterday. who's worked with you guys for a long time. And I One of the things that I got out of this was that.

William Lee does not appear to be a man who was striving with anything other than himself, and he's made peace with himself. That's what I got out of this. Did I read that right? You did?

So You know, you have to compete with yourself. You got to also motivate yourself. To be the best you can. And it's like, In our age, Our business singing and touring is not the easiest thing on people's life. And, you know, you got to pace yourself.

You got to know when it's time to get your rest, and you got to know when it's time to get ready to go and pump yourself up and be ready. And we talked about earlier here, you know, it's like routines of working out, doing sit-ups, things, going to walk, but be ready and to sing. And that's what I do, but. We have to motivate ourselves. To activate ourselves in whatever it is we choose to do.

And at my age, I have to do that to get in a positive mood, to get on. Did you start the day right? There's one scene in the book that you motivated yourself to do something quite extraordinary. And that was to reconcile. and make a sincere effort.

with Frogy. There's a very emotional part of the book. Nobody accidentally asked for forgiveness. Yeah. That's something do you do with intention?

And with sincerity, you're trying to make amends.

Now, forgiveness doesn't mean it doesn't matter, but it does mean you're going to take your hands off of someone else's throat and give them the opportunity to do the same with you, if possible. I can't make somebody forgive me. They, that's their choice, whether they, whether I even know I offended them or not. But in this case, you did know, you knew you had some unfinished business, and she was facing some very difficult things herself. And you did this, talk about that moment.

I'm thankful that my wife, my current wife, Simone.

So my fourth wife. Yeah. I was unfaithful to progene. And unfaithful was someone she knew, was a friend of hers. And I fell in love with her friend, too.

And uh Over a period of time, Frojine found out about it and confronted me and confronted her friend.

Someone had told her. But there's a lot of stories behind all of that. Simone, my wife. We've been together.

Soon the six years we've been married. We were together for a couple of years before that and uh But uh Simone asked me. knowing my past and Had I ever apologized to Frojan for being unfaithful to her when she didn't do anything to deserve it? Hmm. And I thought and I said, no, I don't think I did because she divorced me and I accepted.

I didn't even go to the divorce. You know, I didn't have a lawyer. I couldn't afford a lawyer.

So I didn't apologize.

So she said, well. Don't you think it's time? Said when you gone. ever do that? I said, well, I don't know.

So she would ask me every six or eight months.

So finally two, three years ago, I guess, on Thanksgiving. Chris invited us all to his house, my son, my third son. And his mother was there, Frogen, and he invited Simone and I over, and we went over. Uh I'd been thinking of You know, doing what Simone had been encouraging me to do. And we were there, and I thought to myself, well, this is the time I'll do it.

And I didn't tell anybody I was going to do it, but at the end of lunch. Thanksgiving lot. before everyone was getting up. starting to leave uh i said i'd like to say something nice and pro gene Simone has questioned me and has asked me repeatedly. Why I didn't ever apologize to you for my unfaithfulness when you didn't do anything.

To deserve it. And thus said I, I want to take this opportunity to apologize to you. Yeah, so Accepted it. She said, William, I forgave you a long time ago. I had to forgive you to move forward.

And she said, but I appreciate you. Taking the time to do it now, and this was before a year before we found out. That she found out, or any of us knew, that she had pancreatic cancer the following year. But yet she lived almost a year after that and uh So we got time to. Spend more time on visitations and my sons.

It was during the pandemic when they were all able to come home from their solo careers and spend time with their mother and my three sons, older sons. We share Uh They were able to be with their mother. All three of them. Basically, all time until she passed, and I would visit her and the occasionally because I was planning to. a big musical project with my sons and I'd had a vision of doing for about two or three years.

And so I was sharing with them what I was. my plans were and But yet we waited until. the timing was right and until after her passing and uh The time. of grieving that my sons And the family was. Went through, and uh, but we got together and started making music, me and my sons, after that.

We were all sheltered down and We started singing songs and harmonized, and they're incredible musicians. We left from here and went to The studio a few days later and said, Hey, let's record this. This is fun.

So we Started recording songs, me and my sons. And we play in songs and invited a couple of other people to come record with us. We wound up Recording 32 songs over About six-week period time there. And We did a full gospel album, an old tradition. I took them back to my childhood, the songs that I started with.

We did three projects. started and finished five major projects in the past 12 months. The book is The one that's out now. And the Oak Ridge Boys new album, Front Porch Singing, is out now. But The three projects I've done with my sons.

Uh After their mother passed. uh that we were Doing pre-production on before she passed. But Yeah. She was getting the songs together, but uh Yeah, those things will be coming later this summer and the fall, but it was that was a healing. Mentally or you think do you think the music reflects Do you think the music reflects that healing that took place at that dinner where you were able to?

Because you didn't do it privately, you did it right in front of everybody. Yes, it was. Did it change your relationship with your sons? Yeah. Or deepen it, not change it, but deepen it.

It's deepened our relationship, I think. And uh You know, I stood by their side and went with them during the. The funeral and uh the grave side with my sons. It's their mother and uh It's the very least I could do. It was a sad time for everyone.

You don't lose. If you ever love someone. Uh You always love them, I feel like, if you truly love someone, especially someone that you share children with. But it's for Yeah, we had a healing. We sang old songs that I grew up on.

I found comfort because I lost my mother. We sang old gospel songs, like if I could hear my mother pray again. They're old country gospel songs. And but we did, we did a whole. 12 songs of gospel music before we went into old traditional songs that I grew up with.

From my childhood of old country songs that I was singing as a kid and playing. And anyhow, it's. It's Bernard. Mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual healing. The spiritual healing was the first to happen with us.

We cut the gospel album first. We had to go back and get our spirits. heels up or fields In the beginning of this, that's where we went first, is all the old gospel songs. Yeah. From that, we evolved into the old country songs, the love songs they ended up.

And then my sons, we all sang songs that I invited them to come and sing songs from their childhood that I take them to all these rock and roll concerts, different concerts, different music. Whatever great entertainment I'd take my kids to it growing up, my sons. And so, They wanted songs that they grew up singing, then it became a thing that we all found healing. It was a time when we were sheltered when our faith had been sheltered. The government tried to shut our faith down.

And We were they closed the churches, so we had. We had spiritual healing at home. Around the piano singing old songs that our mothers sang for us. And that's where it started with our healing. At home here singing around the piano, we went in the studio and recreated, and we kept.

singing the old songs that we were singing at home. We'd build that weekend. Record them in the studio. And so through that, and harmonizing together. Yeah.

we have found a mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual healing. On my live show that I do every week, I um I take a hymn. And I usually play it at the beginning. I call it the caregiver keyboard. And I step over here.

And um, but I try to go through these songs. the hymnal and introduce them to people maybe who don't know them or have forgotten them. and explain to them the the richness they have. The music that can hear.

Sometimes there's an old quote I love by Hans Christian Anderson. He said, when words fail, Music speaks. There have been times where words have failed. You and me, and anybody that's lived any kind of life, but music will speak to us in ways that is beyond that. I think about how scripture says that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us and groans, and then we can't even, words, we can't even process.

And I think that's sometimes what music is for me. And there have been times when Gracie and I were in so much difficulty. There were so many different things going on. She's had 80 surgeries. that I can count.

And yet, all we had sometimes was just to go to the piano, and I'd play, and she'd sing, and we would just stumble through a song. You've done that. You understand what that's like, and the power of that, of a great hymn of the faith that sustains in those low, low, low, low moments, lower than Richard Sturbin's voice moments. It is. And it's amazing, you know, it's like.

These old hymns. I had to get out of the house. during all this pandemic. I had to get away from television. Yeah.

uh there was more hate Violence. and anger coming. Every time you turn on TV, you change the channel, there's more hate and violence. I had to shut it off. I had to get away from it.

I didn't grow up around them, so maybe I had to. remove myself a burden. where it was spewing out. And I got outside and that's when all these songs started going. Coming flooding into me, you know.

I mean, this old song, like I would, it started going over, and I couldn't get out of my mind, was a. But no that I and I went ahead and recorded a song called softly and tenderly. Jesus is calling. calling for you and for me, you know, it's an old. Yeah.

Love that. But we sang songs like that, and we'd sing here around the house.

So we just say, hey, let's go to the studio and do this. got our fiance. The strange. Let's forget about what's out there. Took our mask off, and we sang.

And during our recording with my family, Um The uh Ben Isaac's for the Isaac family was at his studio and He was uh he came down with COVID just before we started recording cup.

So he missed the first recordings. And uh was helping us with the vocal arrangements. At the end of Yeah. Second thing, we got into the country stuff. More pop.

recordings of my sons and Chris my Youngest son, it played drums and sings. Plays mandolin and these are multi-talented, but uh. He came down with COVID and and this guy's steve henson that was playing steel guitar and dobro and slide guitar He came down with COVID and found out that he was. He was suffering what we thought was a sinus infection during. The old country song recording.

And as soon as the sessions were over, the Two days later, he found out that he was suffering from COVID. doctor was treating him for sinus infection. He actually had COVID and wildfier. See you, but thank God he survived. But it's like that came through our all of this.

Tried to distract it, seems like, but yet we kept moving forward with it. That brings me to a point. I wanted to ask you something about because you talk about how you keep going, you activate yourself. Push forward, you let the grudges be gone. When you were.

Fired from the Oak Ridge boys. And that was certainly one of the darker times in your life. You also write about how this became an opportunity that you did not count on. Right. with your voice.

And not just with your boys, with yourself for you to do some self-examination. I imagine you spend a lot of. Long walks thinking to yourself, okay. How did I get to this place? What happened?

And we're all going to experience moments where we just get kicked in the groin. Right. It's going to happen. But what we do with it, where we see it go is the challenge. You saw an opportunity.

You discovered an unexpected opportunity. through one of the darker, more public events in your life. Talk a little bit about that.

Well, it was time that you My partners, the guys that I had actually. Hired, stood up for to make sure to do it. It got them into the group when it was a time for a personnel. When one guy would be leaving and And you're Got to replace this position here. It was people that I had brought into the mix.

It had stunned me and shot me and uh It don't matter how bad things can get sometimes. You have to look for positive things that come out of bad situations.

So sometimes it gets maybe some good thing if you. can go ahead and get there. It gave me an opportunity to spend time with my sons that I felt. It was time they're they were young men then. And uh It had bothered me that I missed out on Because if they were young.

They were young teenagers when I divorced their mother divorced me and So I missed, and I was on the road 200, 250 days a year away from them, and I felt like that. There were things as men that I needed you. And time with them, and the only way they know who I am and what I am as a man is. We got together and uh started making music together. And I was pushing them and their talent.

And they would play and sing and back me up. Uh thing songs that I wanted to sing. And so we went out and toured. And you know uh wherever we could play. Anyway, we could Seeing and Stay together and make music.

Mm. That's what we found, and it brought us closer as a family and was able to, my chance, to at least. See how I survive in the world of that I've chosen to do of Pursuing a musical career and trying to have a creative way to express yourself. Oh good. Doing it through music and songs.

And since I don't write songs, I had to, you know, it's. you gotta depend on depend on the great writers and inspired to write. Great songs. But uh Time to spend with my sons. And I feel like that was a valuable time in all of our lives.

And then uh After a period of time, the Oak Ridge Boys going through some difficult understood. I didn't go see 'em or disturb 'em. While I was away, let them have it what they wanted. It was uh Anyhow, that's a whole nother story. A lot of that's in the book.

But Well I didn't cover that in the book. But I think that the lesson was. That I got out of it. And I think this is the lesson you wanted to convey: is that, yeah, we're going to have these moments where it just gets ugly. And we can sit around and be bitter about it.

We can just go back to those whole things with grudges, or we can use this as an opportunity to grow as a person. You know, I look at Myself and my life, and the people that I'm trying to reach on this show, I know people who are dealing with very painful, and it is very uncomfortable. And they can use this as an opportunity to be, to rail out and to just walk around with their grinding teeth. Or they can say, you know what, is there beauty and joy even in this? And I read about cases in the Holocaust where people were in concentration camps and they were able to see.

Beauty and joy, even in that. And so that's what I wanted for myself. And I wanted to share with listeners that, you know what? You could be as miserable or as happy as you choose to be. And we don't have to be all bit out of shape.

And yeah, things are going to happen. But when the reconciliation came with you and the Oaks. It was a serious moment of great reflection where you're just saying to each other, you know what? We have grown as individuals. And it changed everything with you guys, didn't it?

Yeah, so. Oh, it's I had the same amount of gold records on my wall as they had. I had success when I was away from them. They kept going when I was not there, but we still all had the same amount of gold records on our wall, and today we still have the same amount. The people are the ones that Ain't those gold records?

It wasn't. I mean, they're the ones that created the gold records and whatnot. We didn't create them, it was the songs we did that they chose to. Deserve that. That's what people want to hear.

They want to hear the original deal, not a. No, they're you're Tribute. Guy that's trying to tribute to the real deal. You know what I mean? They want to see the real bands rather than the tribute bands.

Not that tribute bands are. Can't make a living, but no, but I get that. But I think that. What I what I got out of your book was When when the tribute moment ended for the Oaks. And the the real band got back together.

It was more than just the real band getting back together. The real band had gone through some real self-discovery at the same time. Right. I think so. They realized.

They realize the importance of the four ingredients. You know, it's it's uh I feel like if that's what Maybe ideas are you How do you Then what's the importance of the foreign Yeah. ingredients was because it brought four different Each one appealed to. had their own appeal to different Part of the audience. And so the whole of that made a much bigger audience.

If you're only taking one guy, then he appeals to these people.

Well, then. Those are the people that I come see you through back. Whenever, with whoever.

So, yeah, we all are individuals, but that was the secret of the Oakleys Boys. It was the country and city combined: the North, the South. You know, the two of us, country guys, two was Joe grew up in Philadelphia, and Richard grew up in Camden, New Jersey, across the river from where Joe did. And I grew up out in the country in the middle of. where neighbors were half a mile or a mile away and uh Wayne grew up out in the country, so it's those.

By the way, I got to tell you something. This is a little inside information on Dwayne. I was sitting in the car with my mother-in-law the other day. Bye. Wife's aunt, my mother-in-law's sister.

Dated Dwayne. way back long time ago. Enough that she actually brought him home one time, and my mother-in-law said. Daddy looked at Dottie. Her name was Dottie.

He said, Why are you going to date that fella? He's in a quartet. Where's he going to go? Yeah. Yeah.

And my wife's grandfather was quite a character. Certainly, he couldn't read success on somebody very well. But that was a funny story that she, I don't know how many times he made it. I wanted to. End up with something here.

with you You've done more. Shows than you can remember, and that you've had big moments that you can remember. But I think for me, one of the more poignant moments. of your career that I've observed. Was the four of you at George Herbert Walker Bush's funeral?

And you guys had to fly through the night to get there. I remember seeing that on the news, talking about it, and yet you stood there. At the grave, I've been at the funeral service for this man. And I had the privilege of meeting him a time or two, but you guys were very close friends. What was that like for you?

I know it's crazy. You got Secret Service and everything else and security and all the cameras over there. But still, there had to be that moment of reflection that I am. from Bruton, Alabama. And I'm standing here and I'm seeing amazing grace.

Yeah. Well A man who will be forever in history, you know, it had to have been kind of a surreal moment for you, wasn't it? Yeah, that's just true. Our friendship with them was. Again, it was through music.

He was a fan of our music and we did a A lawn, a White House lawn party or barbecue for President Reagan. when he was vice president. And he came running across the lawn where he was there in the afternoon doing a sound check for that evening. And we were singing some songs, see how the sound is going to sound. Here comes Vice President Bush, and he runs across there with t-shirts to give to each guy.

And he was telling us he was a big fan of our music. And he wanted, he was requested two or three songs for us to sing while we were doing a sound check. And they were all album cut songs, you know, so we knew that he was. He knew more about our music than just what he was hearing on radio.

So we sang those songs for him. Anyhow, that started our relationship. He had to go somewhere else that night. But it was a barbecue for all the Democrats and Republicans to come together and forget about politics for a night. Yeah.

We had fun and sang country music, eight barbecue, and uh That started a friendship that lasted for 30 seven years, I guess, is uh Every year George and Barbara Bush would invite the Oakwoods boys up to their home. And our wives, the four guys, and our wives. I would spend three days with them. And uh in their home. Yeah.

It's time you go, they want you to stay in this. Room this time, you stayed in this one last time, so we're going to put you over here this time with this few. And they would uh they kept up with everything that we stayed last time. And uh so it was always fine, but you know I didn't know until then that presidents aren't allowed to drive cars after they become president.

So But yet they're allowed to drive boats, so he had a speedboat, and he loved to get out in that boat. zone it and then take us out. For a ride, and we did it every day, sometimes a couple of times a day, but at lunch before lunch. He'd take you out for a ride, and then he'd say, We'll beat him back at a restaurant a year later.

So there was certain restaurants you could go and uh Park to boat at if the only one. Secret Service was always following in their boat, but uh. We're friends and we shared a lot of times together out on the boat. Just sitting around the house and usually the nights. Before we were leaving the next day they would get us to sing.

Sometimes it'd be a cappella, sometimes maybe. You pull those soundtrack or something to uh On a certain song, but and on occasions they'd invite friends of theirs over to their home, different politicians and business. Paper achieve. You know, from different parties. They had people, Democrats and Republicans, at the, they had friends, you know, in all parties, they were great people.

If about America it wasn't all about party.

So, uh it's America. Anyhow, to be standing there at the funeral and uh In Houston. At a time like that, we flew all night from Smoketown, Washington on a private plane. to be there. And to our respects.

and to sing his favorite song. Sing amazing grace at his funeral because that's what he always wanted us to sing and. But you're singing it and you're realizing. The gravity of it because you look out there and there's George Gurdue. And there's Neil and uh Jeb and the whole family and then there's World dignitaries are all over the place.

which are setting there, but You feel it's it's surreal because You're singing it with all the memories and you're realizing. Shm. that you're getting to sing it probably for your last time for him. And uh So it was a It's a touching at an emotional time. Then, and to reflect back on it, it reminds me of that.

And so, thank you for. asking that question. I remember watching it. And I had just interviewed Joe. Not terribly long before that.

He's been on the show a time or two. and i was just i was watching it and i knew the emotions had to be thick And um You know, you don't do something like that without recognizing the The somberness of it, not just for a funeral, but who this was on the stage of history. And that here you were. And I was really quite moved by what you guys did and the way you stood there and represented.

So many of us who would have liked to have done that. For them, not because we want to be on the stage, but because when you have that kind of, I met the man just a few times, but what I found in him was a decent, kind, caring man. Did you see somebody like that who's a decent man in an indecent world? And you want to pour out devotion. That life of love that you have for him, and you guys represented a lot of us doing that, and I was very, very moved by that.

Yeah. You did something in the book, and I will close up with this. The last bit of your book, the last line in your book. In fact, I have it right here. I'm going to read it.

There's actually two lines that I loved on the last page. Of your part, said uh, we all grow, we try to learn from our mistakes. If I've learned from every mistake I've ever made, I must be the smartest man on earth, which I thought I laughed out loud at that one. But here's the last line of the book. And I'm not giving anything away, I don't think.

This is not a spoiler, but Thank you for taking the time to get to know the man behind the beard. And thank you for your friendship and support through the years. Love and God bless you. WLG. Only a man.

who has sung in front of millions and millions of people. and done as many shows as you have. Would understand the importance of thanking people at the end for being at the show, for reading it. And there was such humility there. You love your fans.

You love. The people you sing for, and that comes through. And I was really quite moved by that. And I got one last question. If there was one song.

One gospel song, one song, one hymn. That you would look at as something that you would. You would want people every time they whistle that song or sing it, you know, that would be a song that meant something to you. Is there one particular that stands out to you?

Well I was fortunate to get a sit get to sing a song. Yeah. 1982 that was uh A song that Is on our first Christmas album. Eddie Reagan came in and said, guys, this is not a. Mm.

a real Christmas song, but I think it fits what you're doing here. And uh he he said i wrote this seven or eight years ago and said I had it on the An album seven years ago said, but I still think it fits what you're doing. It's a song called Thank God for Kids. And uh The lines is If it weren't for kids, have you ever thought? There wouldn't be no Santa Claus.

Or look what the stork just brought. Thank God for kids.

So, uh, The Santa Claus line is the only thing that referred to Christmas in there, but The song. was released as a Christmas album. Christmas came and we're The song kept going up the charts, and I think it was late in January, the first part of February, it went to a number one country song. With the sound still. Of all the times of cutting, it was.

Right after it was released, I became a grandfather for the first time.

So it takes on a different meaning. And then. Through the years I became a father again. And then I've become a grandfather. Seven times now, and a great-grandfather three times.

So the song keeps taking on more meaning as I get older. If it weren't for kids, have you ever thought? There wouldn't be no Santa Claus. But look what the store just brought, thank God for tears. And we'd all live.

In a quiet house. Without big bird or a Mickey Mouse. And Kool-Aid on the couch Thank God forgives. Thank God for kids there's magic for a while. A special kind.

And of sunshine. This has been a great time. William Lee, I appreciate you giving me a little extra time today, and I want you to know how much I appreciate it. This has been a treat. Again, the reason I did this today, I wanted to take a little bit of a Deviation from what I normally talk about.

I think caregivers need to hear from just different sources of people who have faced. difficulties. I think sometimes like we get so myopic in our own And it's so important for us to kind of step out of ourselves for a little bit and learn from someone else's journey. I learned from yours, I learned the importance of letting go. of things I've learned the importance of learning to make peace with yourself.

And be at peace with yourself. And I've learned that you can find great beauty and joy and opportunity even in the midst of heartache. Those are life lessons that apply. all the way across the board. And you've been a real treat to talk with today.

And so I thank you very, very much.

Well, Peter, hopefully one day we'll get to come back, talk again, and maybe after some of this music I've been making with my sons comes out later in the summer and the fall. Maybe we can sit again.

So I've enjoyed it. Thank you for and I'm trying to get you guys. I'm trying to get the Oaks out here to Southwest Montana. We were out that way recently in Montana.

So we've yeah, but Montana is a big place.

So it's um we drove two and a half hours one way to dinner the other night. Yeah. Wow. The difference between Tennessee and Montana is in Tennessee, they they we think a hundred miles is a long ways. In Montana, they think a hundred years is a long time.

100 years ain't that long. My daddy said, man, 100 years ain't long. To be here because it flies so fast, you know, at my age. Hey. If that take long to get here to me, I still got a long way to go.

And it's nothing compared to what we're going to do when we've been there 10,000 years, bright, shining as the sun. We've no less days to sing God's praise than when we first begun. And that's a. That's a great way to end this on.

Well, thank you again, Peter. And it's been a joy here today. I've enjoyed this as much as any I've done. We're going to end this show with the performance of the Oak Ridge Boys at the funeral service of President George H.W. Bush.

Amazing grace. Whee. And we've been there. And thousand years. Right.

Thank you. Shining as the sun we've no less faith to sing. God's praise that And when we first be gone Some of you know the remarkable story of Peter's wife, Gracie. and recently Peter talked to Gracie about all the wonderful things that have emerged from her difficult journey. Take a listen.

Gracie, when you envisioned doing a prosthetic limb outreach, did you ever think? that inmates would help you do that? Not in a million years. When you go to the facility run by Core Civic, And you see the faces of these inmates that are working on prosthetic limbs. that you have helped collect from all over the country that you put out the plea for.

And they're disassembling. You see all these legs, like what you have, your own prosthetic legs. And arms, too. And arms. When you see all this, what does that do to you?

Makes me cry. Because I see the smiles on their faces and I know I know what it is to be locked someplace where you can't get out without somebody else allowing you to get out. Of course, being in the hospital so much and so long. And so, um That these men are so glad that they get to be doing, as one man said, something good finally with my hands. Did you know before you became an amputee that Parts of prosthetic limbs could be recycled?

No, I had no idea. You know, I thought of peg leg, I thought of wooden legs, I never thought of titanium and carbon legs and flex feet and C legs and all that. I never thought about that. As you watch these inmates participate in something like this, Knowing that they're helping other people now walk, they're providing the means for the supplies to get over there. What does that do to you just on a heart level?

I wish I could explain to the world. What I see in there. And I wish that I could be able to go and say, this guy right here, he needs to go to Africa with us. I never not feel that way. Every time, you know, you always make me have to leave.

I don't want to leave them. I feel like I'm at home. With them. And I feel like that we have a common bond. that I would have never expected that only God could put together.

Now that you've had an experience with it, what do you think of the faith-based programs that Core Civic offers? I think they're just absolutely awesome. And I think Every Prison out there should have faith-based programs like this because. return rate. Of the men that are involved in this particular faith-based program.

and other ones like it that I know about this one. Are it's just an amazingly low rate compared to those who don't have them. And I think that that says so much. That doesn't have anything to do with me. It just has something to do with God using somebody broken.

to help other broken people. If people want to donate a used prosthetic limb, whether from a loved one who passed away, Or You know, somebody who outgrew them, you've donated some of your own for them to do. How do they do that? What do they find? Please go to Standing with Oak.

Yeah. Slash recycle. Standingwithhope.com slash recycle. Thanks, Grace. Take my hand, lean on me, we will stay.