Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome to this show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick live.

Excuse me. Okay, woo, hit a little something in my throat there. Hey, if you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276.

I want to hear from you. Give me a call, and it's easy to do. All you have to do is dial that number. If you want, you can give me an email or send an email to me. Info at CARM.org.

Info at CARM.org, radio comment, radio question, that kind of a thing. Easy, and I'd love to hear from you. And we get to those usually on a Friday.

All right, all right, all right, the beginning of the show. And I will be down, Lord willing, on the weekend of the 14th and 15th. I'm going to be down in Orange County, California, speaking at a conference on Islam. Friday night, I'll be on panel, and then Saturday, I'll be at the conference. And then Sunday, I got to preach in Norco and then fly back.

So that's what's happening. If anybody happens to be down there in the area, you know, you want to stop by or anything, that'd be great. And I'm thinking about going to Provo in a couple of weeks to see a friend of mine, Ed Romine, if he's listening. He's okay. He's all right, you know. He's all right. I hope he's listening.

And so I like to tease him, I do all the time. And he's going to be preaching down there. So I'm thinking about with a guy named Haps driving down there, maybe get down there and do what I'll do.

I know what I'll do. Well, yeah, this would be good. While Ed's preaching, I could sit in the back or maybe even in the very front. And no one would know I was doing this. I could just bug eye him when he says something, just bug eye him.

And then just, you know, really flinch hard of my eyes like what and rub my forehead and shake my head a little while he's preaching. That might be fun. You know, maybe I'll do that.

Maybe if Ed's listening, if he is, he'll be smiling. All right. Hey, like I said, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Just want to remind you, ladies and gentlemen, that we stay on the air by your support. Please consider supporting us. We definitely do need it. And just ask for that support.

$5 a month, $10 a month, that's not too much. Go to karm.org forward slash donate. You can do that. In fact, we just redid some of the stuff on that. I'm going to check it out right now. Forward slash donate.

It'll take you to, just go in one hurry. There it goes. Yeah, we've got, there it is.

It's pretty slick and pretty simple. Yeah, even if I do say so myself. All right, all right. Let's get on the phones with Alan from Virginia. Alan, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey, Matt. How's it going? It's going, man. It's going. How you doing, buddy? Doing well. I was calling today because I found a church that I did some research on and I feel pretty confident that they might be an all right church to go to. But I was just wanting to see if maybe I missed something that I get your input on. Okay. And the producer put the URL in. It's swiftcreekbaptist.org. And the first thing I do is go look at the staff and see if they have any women pastors.

And if they do, it's bad to stay away. Receptionist ministry assistant to the pastors is a woman. That's okay. And worship assistant.

There's one that I'm concerned about with that, but I don't know exactly how it works for that position. Okay. And which one is that? It's the one for women's ministry leader. Okay.

Ministry assistant, women's ministry leader, worship assistant to women's leader. Yeah. And there's nothing to click on there. You have to ask.

Now they're in Virginia there. And okay. So that's that. That's all I can tell you from there are beliefs. Now what I'm going to do is go to the beliefs, scripture.

I'm scanning it while I'm talking. Good. It's definitely not as long as your statement of faith. I'll say that. But I don't think any church is.

Yeah, mine's excessively long, but for logistical reasons. But it says there's only one and there is one and only one living in true God. Eternal God reveals himself to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit with distinct personal attributes, but without the vision of nature, essence, or being. Yeah, that's an insufficient definition. Because oneness could agree with this, distinct personal attributes. So it's not negating oneness. But it's a Baptist church, so it automatically should. But it's just an insufficient one. They need to say something like in there. They need to affirm and deny.

So it's apathetic, which means to deny something. So God is this, but he's not that. He reveals himself to us.

I get that. He reveals himself to us. I would prefer something like God is a trinity of one God that is one God in three distinct, simultaneous, co-eternal persons. Not three gods, not three modes.

You know, things like that. It says God the Son, eternal Son of God, that's good. He's convinced, Virgin Mary. He honored the law, good, and in his death he made provision for the redemption of men and sin. It should be PSA, penal substitutionary atonement in there. But that's okay. Holy Spirit exalts Christ, convicts of sin, righteousness, judgment, and enlightened power as a believer.

That's good. Man was created in special act as image. Free choice, man sinned against God. And the free choice, Adam sinned against God. Man there is everybody, but it says his is singular. Man here is taking the plural.

So it's a mixture of number, which, you know, I get anal about stuff like that. And brought sin to the human race. So it should be, by his free choice, Adam sinned against God.

That's what it should be. The sacredness of human personality. Man is on image, and in that Christ died for man. Therefore, every man possesses dignity and worth. That's good.

Here we go. Salvation involves redemption of the whole man is offered freely to all who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, who by his own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believers. It's good enough.

It's brought us to salvation includes regeneration, sanctification, and glorification. Yeah, it's not very precise. It needs to be more precise. The one thing that worries me a little bit is offered freely to all who accept Jesus Christ kind of thing.

Kind of gives me Arminian. Yeah, it certainly can. The Baptist Faith in Message 2000. So it has that read that preamble. So they link to that.

And then there's more precise stuff in that. I wish they were listening. Someone's listening. And they would say, Hey, man, help us write a better statement of faith.

Because I've been doing this for so long. These are the things they need to do in a statement of faith. And if anybody's listening, this is a legal thing for legality and protection.

I talked to lawyers about this. And they said, in your statement of faith, put what you stand for and what you stand against. We, for example, you know, my statement of faith will say homosexuality is an example is not an acceptable lifestyle and is sinful.

Things like that. And the reason that's necessary is because if someone comes into your church and sues you because they're homosexual, you wouldn't let them work in a children's ministry or whatever it is. Then they can sue you because it doesn't say your statement of faith that you don't, you know, your homosexual thing.

So therefore, you're just playing favorites and they can bring a suit. But if it's in the statement of faith and it's been there for a while, then the legitimacy of a suit against the church is a lot less credulous. Okay.

So I've actually had people, one guy in Africa has told me that he printed up the statement of faith and just uses it to teach out of. It's so comprehensive. Yeah. And I had people, it is. It's good. Even if I do say so myself and I've had people, churches borrow it to say, can we use this? I say, yeah, go ahead.

Adapt it all you want, you know, and stuff like that. So that's good. So it seems okay. You know, the biggest issues with this is it needs to be more precise. Well, as an apologist, I like to see more precision in a statement of faith.

And you don't have to add much more to be more precise. Salvation should be, for example, they have salvation involves the redemption of the whole man, that's true, who by his own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believer. We should say in there, we are justified by faith alone in Christ alone and not by works and not by baptism and not by sacraments. In addition to faith that needs to be in there. So I do, I did have, I did listen to one of the teachings where they were talking about Catholicism, Protestantism, and he did mention about faith alone. So I'm assuming at least the primary pastor is a faith alone believer.

Good. It should be reflected in their statement of faith. It just, it should. And I understand a lot of statement of faiths, they're not trying to do too much there. Well, I want to know why they're not trying to do too much there. Are they trying to satisfy unbelievers? Are they trying to not cause Christians to go, what do you say?

Well, you know, we don't want that to happen. We want precision and they're supposed to teach sound doctrine. So if I were suddenly the pastor of that church, I'd say one of the first things we're doing is we're going to expand this, this statement of faith. So that it's, it's, you know, one thing I would like is, um, I guess two things I would like is first is with the statement of faith is to give some, uh, if pressed on it, give some, uh, scriptures to support the claims that they make in there.

And then also for staff, give lists, click on a link for the role or whatever, and expand upon what the responsibilities are. Amen, brother. I'm with you.

Absolutely. And also there's nothing in here about baptism, which should be spoken and it also should have an eschatological section. We believe in the imminent return of Christ and they need to say something like preacher, rapture, mid and poster, rapture are all within orthodoxy. And we don't differentiate here at this church, you know, things like that. They might, they're probably pre-millennial.

They might want to say, yeah, they're pre-millennial, but recognize that all millennialism, post-millennialism are within orthodoxy, things like that. And, uh, that's what they need to do for a statement of faith. What I might do is I sent a pretty long email, um, to the primary pastor to see, to see if he could expand upon the statement of faith. Um, so we'll see where that goes, but if all goes well, maybe I will, um, share this, um, this section of your radio segment to him.

And who knows, maybe he'll come on or I can, maybe he'll want to discuss with me and or you or something about change and stuff, you know? Yeah. You know, as an apologist, who's constantly dealing with orthodoxy and heresies, I'm very attuned to the things that are, that need to be in a decent statement of faith. But also, most churches are not attuned to the threat of the, the unbelievers in lawsuits against churches, which is happening.

And a statement of faith is one of the ways of protecting you against that. Okay? We've got to go, there's a break. All right, buddy. All right. Thank you, man. All right, man.

God bless. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show.

If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. You get to leave from South Carolina. Leave. Welcome. You're on the air. Hello. Hello. All right, ma'am. So where do you go? Hey, how you doing?

Mr. Slick. My brother. So, Matt, I have a question about, about my marriage. Like we haven't had an intimacy several years and it feels like it's making me, it is making me weak, but it's actually making me think that she's cheating on me.

Is there anything in the Bible that could help, help me, help my marriage, us together? Well, all right. So if you've not had intimacy in years, if I were counseling you, let's say you're in a house, you know, and we're just, doors closed and we're just talking. I'm going to ask questions, lots of questions. You know, I'd ask her why.

I want to know exactly what the reason is. If this, what's it, go ahead. She, she would act like I'm getting on her nerves because I told her with school, yeah, she's a, um, why I always like want to argue.

She'll say, like, I'm, I'm trying to argue if I ask her a question. Okay. Um, okay. The Bible says in first Corinthians seven five, stop depriving one another. This is in marriage context and it's me talking about sexuality except by agreement for a time so that you may devote yourself to prayer and come together against those Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self control. That's first Corinthians seven five. So first Corinthians, first Corinthians seven five, read the context there. Okay.

One through five is what you need to read. Now, is she a Christian? Yes. Okay.

And are you a Christian? Yes. Most definitely.

I actually was going to school to get my, I got my diploma in theology. I want, I want to go back in September, but it was harder. It was hard while we're going through that. Yeah. Obviously. Are you attending a church?

Yes, we are. Um, but I actually stopped going for a while because I feel like we've been hypocrites because we will go in there and, but she will leave out. She, she, she belittled me like since she's a, she became a nurse in a higher rank.

It's like, and I helped. How old is she? How old is she?

She's 35 and I'm 37. Okay. And how long have you been married? Okay. How long have you been married?

We've been married for nine years. All right. So what you need to do is you need to go to the elders of the church. You need to talk to them.

You need to get into counseling with the church, with the elders. If I were your counselor here, you know, um, I'd be asking specific questions. There are various reasons why intimacy can be, uh, not happening. One is legitimate, uh, physical problem.

That's legit. Uh, there are some unusual other circumstances. We'll get into those kinds of things, but that's one. If there is no physical, uh, prohibition there, then she does not have the right to abstain and deprive you sexually, just as you don't have that same right for her. If she is doing that, then she is in sin. If you have told her that, uh, you're, you know, you have your needs, et cetera. I understand what it means to be a male, have testosterone. Women don't understand it.

They, it's a science fiction thing to them. So then, uh, then she is in rebellion against God and in your marriage, and she's violating the covenant agreement that you keep one to another. What that basically means is sexually and all that, you're one to another. And so she's obligated to be available as you are obligated to be available. It's not being forcing and nothing like that, but she has to understand that this is part of what marriage is. And if, unless there's a reason, a specific reason to abstain that you both agree on, then she doesn't have the right to do that.

Uh, you know, I can get it one night, two nights, you know, she's got a headache, she's, you know, all the standard whatevers. I get that. Right, right, right.

But not for years. That's unacceptable. So you need to go to the elders, you need to talk to the elders. The elders need to call her into, uh, and you, into a counseling session. Now let's just say I was your pastor and you both came in and she said, and I don't know, I'm not trying to put words in the mouth, she says, I don't want to be with them, I don't like this, I don't like that, blah, blah, blah.

A bunch of reasons that don't, really aren't, don't amount to anything. I would say, well, that, those don't amount to anything. You need to, uh, come together as, as, which is part of what marriage is for. And if she refuses, I would then tell her that, uh, if she continues to refuse, then we have to bar her from taking communion.

This is how serious this is because she, she is violating the covenantal requirements in marriage. And, and, and, and I actually have said things like that, but like she would, Oh, okay. So I told her to quit her job years ago and go back and follow her education and get an R.N. Now she's a manager and she feel like she don't need me.

That's one thing because I'm thinking that I know the enemy using her to try to destroy me, the head anyways of the house. But like, like, like, like about two weeks ago, we, I mean, she said she hated me talking about she miserable. But how can you say that now when you don't need me?

Um, hold on, hold on. The rationality isn't something that you want to discuss with a woman in that condition. A lot of ladies are raising their eyebrows, but it's true.

Because when they have emotional commitments or distance from you, rationalities is just forget it. The issue is, is she committed to Christ? And she's not. She's not committed to Christ. It doesn't make, doesn't matter who makes more money in the house.

That's irrelevant. In a Christian marriage, the man is the head of the house. I mean, you are dominant and, you know, abusive. Wait, wait, and I told her that. Okay, so what it means is that she submits to your spiritual leadership.

And this is just a thing of humility before Christ, because Christ submitted to the headship of the Father, and yet Jesus was God in flesh. Wait. So this is okay.

Amen. So in the marriage, she has obligations, as do you. And they're both to be met. She does not meet these requirements and refuses to do it. It's a form of abandonment. She's abandoning the covenant relationship. And things like this usually end in divorce.

And I'm not saying I want that, but they often do. No, I mean, even like, I knew her since she was 16 turning 17. I was 18. That's how long we've been, we have kids together. My oldest child is 17.

And we've got two little ones. You need to go to the elders. You need to go to the elders.

Yes. This needs to be brought up before the elders. Hopefully you have a good church.

If the elders there say, well, no way, brother, we're good, then it's a bad church. Right. Hey, wait, we've got a break. Hold on, okay? Hold on, brother, we've got a break, all right? Yes, sir.

Take this break. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after this message or these messages. So if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Lee. Lee, are you still there? Hey. Hey.

All right, man. So, like, wait, wait, wait. And why she said things like that, because she say, the only thing I talk about is intimacy. And she's talking about sex, but I say it's not dead.

It's like you don't kiss me, hug me, but sometimes you might tell me you love me. But that's words. I mean... Mm-hmm. But... I understand.

Like, intimacy... She needs... We don't... You guys need counseling. Yep. Yes. You need counseling. Yeah, you do.

You've got to go to the elders. This needs to be worked out. This is going to take a while. And I understand the frustration that you are experiencing. Trust me, I understand. There's frustrations in marriage. I've talked to a lot of people about this.

Yes. Marriage can be difficult. Marriage has ups and downs and things like that. But she's in rebellion, from what you've told me.

And so you need to go to the church and they need to be involved. Like, she'll mock me and say, Oh, you're talking about, I suppose, like... What was the word? It's like, okay, on the head. So, like, the word that in the Bible when... Oh, so she'll try to turn around and say, You want a wife? Yes.

Yes. And do whatever you want. And so I said, no, that ain't how it is. That ain't what that means. It's not what that means.

Because we supposed to be equal, but also... Right. It can't be two heads. I understand. Everything with two heads is evil.

Anything with more than one head is evil, from my understanding. And I said, it seems like that's how you want to be. Like, she'll show everyone else. Like, she's smart. She's sweet. Okay.

And, like, you wouldn't never think she's like that. But once we get behind closed doors, everything change. Yeah, I understand. Let me say this again.

You need to contact the elders of your church. You need to be doing that. I will. I will.

And you start keeping a record of things that have happened. Yes, sir. Yes.

And you said 1 Corinthians 1, 125? 7, 5. All right.

7, 5. Okay, fine. But read 1 Corinthians 7, 1 through 5. But you need to start keeping a record and not use against her, but for your own protection and for counseling purposes. So you keep a record.

You know, you talk to a guy in the audio. You've been talking to her. You've said this. You've said that.

These are some of the things. And it may become valuable later on. And so I would suggest that you do that. But at the very least, you need to get with the elders, okay? I've done a lot of counseling with marriage couples, lots over the years. And when I counsel, I do three to four hours at a time the first time, the first meeting. And that's just how it is. Okay.

Because I do things differently. And I want to know where they are biblically. I want to know if they're Christians. I want to know how dedicated to Christ they are.

And I ask very specific questions about that because that's the foundation. If a couple is dedicated to Jesus Christ, then I'm going to hit them with what the Bible says. And they say, well, I don't feel like doing this. I don't feel like that. I don't feel like this. I don't care. It doesn't matter what you feel like. You do what you have to do.

Just like in the middle of the night, you don't feel like getting up and taking care of your sick kid. You do it anyway. Just don't give me this.

I'd say more gently, but it's a childish attitude to say, well, I don't feel like they're, therefore, I'm not going to do anything. This is childishness. It needs to stop.

It has no place in it. Right. Okay? Unless you don't feel like stopping aliens. Okay?

Yes. Like she would mess with my manhood. She would be like, you acting feminine and stuff like that.

I only ask for intimacy. When she was in school and I was paying all her bills, she was good. I said that and that. And we, and we've been out on our own since before then.

It was like five, six years. But you need. Okay.

You're just, you need to contact the elders. All right. Okay.

I get it. There's frustration. There's issues.

You need to write them down so that you can talk to the elders about them and, uh, deal with it with the elders because that's what needs to be done. Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.

I need it just to confirm that with more than just me. Okay. Yes, sir. Okay. All right. Okay. Perfect. All right, brother.

Well, God bless. Okay. Okay. And let me know what happens. Yes, sir.

Thank God bless you too. All right, man. All right. That's a tough one.

That is tough. All right. Courtney from Ohio.

Courtney. Welcome. You're on the air. Hi, how are you? I'm all right. I'm hanging in there. All right.

What have you got? So, um, I have an unusual question. Um, my husband and I had, like, we were praying for a church for a really long time. Um, we, we went to a church for seven years and it closed and it took about seven years to find another one and we visited lots of them over the years and we found one that we really, really liked and, uh, we visited for a few months and we joined last summer.

And, uh, at the beginning of July, um, there were, you know, we were going to have a patriotic service, it was called, and in the middle of the service, the pastor announced, um, I guess there was a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that my husband and I had no idea about, um, you know, elders complaining about him and lying about him on Facebook and we had no idea. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Okay. Complaining is one thing. Elders lying is a very serious thing.

So are you saying then that the elders are purposely sinning? That's what he said. He said, and he's, and like I said, we didn't know, we knew none of it. Okay. Okay.

So he says that the, he said the elders are lying. All right. That's a very serious thing.

It's a very serious thing. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. All right. So there you go. Um, okay. Well, I would say so serious.

Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah.

It's a very serious thing when one, cause he's an elder and if he's calling the elders liars, then at that point, another church set up system needs to be involved in order for it to be worked out with him and the other elders and needs to be taken care of immediately. Well, okay. So he's already left. Um, it was, yeah, he, so apparently there was a lot of friction going on. He wasn't there very long.

It was going on for about two years. Um, we had just joined and knew none of it. So like when he announced this, the one service, it was, you know, the Sunday before July 4th because it was a patriotic service.

Um, you know, it was very patriotic centered. And then all of a sudden he started going into the, what was happening. And, um, I, I guess there was conversations that they discussed everything very openly on the floor about, you know, how he took people, you know, a witness with him and, um, how you're supposed to do when, when that kind of stuff goes on. And I turned to my husband and I said, what is happening? We showed up and all of a sudden all this stuff is coming out. So within a week, um, you know, they, we met for Bible study. Um, people got to, uh, they have their say, you know, and to respond.

And he actually was giving them the floor that Sunday, you know, to say anything. Have you got a question related to all this? Just curious. Yes, yes. So once, um, so now that he's left and, um, you know, the, the, the rest of them are still there.

So like the, the church constitution actually said they were supposed to leave, but he left. Um, I cannot kind of understand why because we found out, we didn't know, but we found out like pretty much everybody that was an elder there was related. We had no idea. Okay. So what's, what's the question?

Okay. The question is now that it's closed or like the, the case is closed now that he's gone, but what is, um, we left too because we kind of felt that they were in the wrong, the other people. How do we go from here? Like, should we expect a pastor to continue to pastor us, um, in this intermission period? Do we just go and start looking for another church? Um, he hasn't found another one himself to actually pastor.

What's the protocol there? Like what, if you were a pastor and something like this happened, what do you do with those people? I've actually had to go through something like this when I was a pastor at a church and they believe they found out, I believe in the charismatic gifts, but you know, I didn't practice them, didn't worry about it. They, let's just say there's a conflict with the, with the, uh, with the members of the congregation. And long story short, I was no longer their pastor.

And so did they decide that or you? They. Okay. Yeah.

And they blew it because it was not a biblical ground. Okay. And so, but, but I understand how people can be and how sides are taken and reconciliation is, is avoided. But in the reality of that, we'll talk a little bit more.

Yes. Okay. We'll get back to the break here. We'll talk about this more.

Okay. Hold on folks. We'll be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Let's get on again with Courtney. All right, Courtney.

Back on the air. Hello. All right. So you want to know what to do, right? Yeah.

Yeah. And what would you do? And like you said, they had you leave, but he chose to leave. What would you do with the people that do still, um, you know, support you and like you and want you to be their pastor?

I mean, it's not like we're not one of those. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. You're asking a complicated question, a multi-part complicated question. I'm autistic.

And so I get a little bit, Ooh, what, what, what I can't, I don't do the wellness with those. So, um, okay. Okay. Go ahead.

I'm not sure what to ask. I'll leave it to you. So what would you do with those that are still supporting you?

Do you still have contact with them and check on them and stuff? Who's the them? Us. So I'll use that. I'm confused. Okay. Okay.

What would you do in regard to who? So the pastor that left the people like us who were not against him, who are not saying he was a liar. So, I mean, I think that he's an excellent.

People like you. Okay. You were for him.

Yes. And we do. Um, what should he do in regards to us? Would he still be our pastor? You're going to, you're going to a church where he's not the pastor. No, we're not going there anymore.

I mean, it was really. Okay. So you're not going to that church anymore. Where is that pastor then? The original pastor. He, he's doing, you know, filling in there and everywhere for people that call him.

He's doing pulpit supply. Okay. So what should you do? Are you going to a church now? Well, that's, uh, we're, we're kind of like in limbo.

Like we're like, do, I mean, we want to, um, but I mean, it just was a month ago. Okay. You need to find a church, find a good church. If it can't be that church, then find another one because this is out of your hands. If he's doing pulpit supply, he's not in a particular church, uh, where he's pastoring. So that issue of him being a pastor is not on the table right now. He's doing pulpit supply. I did that for several years in California.

Loved it. So, uh, what you need to do is, uh, is let it go and then find a church, let it go. Because trust me on this. If you don't let it go, uh, the potential here is that resentment can grow. Resentment leads to anger. Anger leads to murder.

So the idea of one sin having root in your heart and your soul that can be allowed to grow is bad. So having gone through it from both sides, I've seen it. I've been the victim of it. And, uh, I've seen it happen to other pastors. I can tell you that there's a lot of stuff you will not be privileged to know that happens behind those closed doors between elders and stuff like that.

There's a lot more to know. So what you have to do is just simply accept, unfortunately, this happened, accept it and you just move on and let it go and don't have resentment. And you ask God to work in your heart and the hearts of the people who are involved and that his will would be accomplished in their lives. And you ask for the blessing of God upon them where reconciliation, hopefully later, can be achieved between all the parties. Okay.

I'm going to re-listen to the radio show so I can re-listen to everything you just said a few times. Can I tell you something that happened behind the day that he officially, like he gave him a week and they never called him the whole week, never contacted him, didn't pray with him, nothing. And then the next Sunday, and he was like, okay, you know, we need to like move on. One of the guys that was one of the deacons fell to the ground and he didn't trip on anything.

There was nothing wrong with him. He just fell. And my husband and I were like, whoa. Like we like wondered if that was the Lord, you know, whatever was going on. It could be that he was dizzy. It could be that there was something in the rug. It could be that just he has a bad leg. It could be all kinds of things. So don't put too much into it.

Okay. Now, if he had levitated upside down and flew across the room, then I'd say that was pretty supernatural. Don't read too much into stuff because when you do that, you can then start justifying, well, he was judgment on him.

That's why he fell. You don't know that. Let it go. Letting it go is a good thing for Christians to do, to learn how to forgive. Jesus does that with us. We need to do that with others within reason.

Okay. I'll tell you, if someone did something to my wife, I would try and forgive them, you know, but if I see them. Oh, pastor, that's exactly what they were doing on the floor. They were waiting for them to go after her. Who's her? His wife. Who's her?

The pastor's wife. They were going, yeah. Okay. Well, without knowing, without being there, I can't make too many comments, but that's what you got to do. All right? Right. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Thank you. All right.

God bless them. Okay. Talk to you later.

You too. Okay. All right. Bye-bye.

God bless. Bye. All right. Now, next.

Oh, man. Andrew's been waiting for over a half hour. Hey, Andrew. Welcome. You're on the show. Yes.

On the air. Hey, bro. Mack, how you doing? Doing all right. Doing all right. Hang on in here, brother.

What do you got? Good. Hey, I was seeing, like, you know, you ever hear of the Masonic, the Masonic? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. Do they, should they be a pastor? Someone who's in the mason, should they be a pastor? It depends. Because it's not a should, it's could, and there's some stuff. Within Freemasonry, there are different levels and stuff like that.

The higher up you go, the worse it gets. So the 33 degree is, they're taking oaths, secret handshakes, promising things for different gods, things like this, absolutely no. On the, you could have potentially a person as a Christian join the masons and it's that particular area or group, nothing bad's happening.

It's just a club. So when we say should or shouldn't, it's hard to say in all situations. However, having said that, I would say, generally speaking, a Christian should not be a Freemason. Right. Because Freemasonry does require oaths and allegiance, and this is a problem.

Right. Because many times these oaths are taken in secrecy, and the Bible doesn't want you to do that. Don't take any secret oaths.

Your yes be yes or no be no. That's one thing. There are certain rituals that they will start doing, and this is bad.

And the further you get into it, the worse it's going to be. And theologically, there are heresies that are taught in Freemasonry. So, generally speaking, no.

A Christian pastor should not be a Freemason. Right. Okay. So, now you start wearing the ring symbol, you know, with the symbol there, the club? The all-seeing eye? Uh-huh.

Yeah. It's borrowed from ancient religious stuff. It's a symbol of ancient religions, not Christianity.

So, now we have, if he was a pastor, now we have him participating in the symbols that originated in Paganism, and still retain that Pagan understanding. The all-seeing eye. The thing that's just gone. Right. Where he is a... Yeah.

And scripture does not refer to him that way. Right. Right. Okay. Okay. There's problems. That's what I was curious about, because he is passing the church and I noticed that the summary on his ring, he wasn't wearing it at first, then he started wearing it.

Yeah. What I would do is get together some research on the Masons and then present it to him. And if he's wearing their symbols and stuff, I would say, have you taken any secret oaths?

Any loyalties to them? If he says yes, then you say, in the scriptures, I forgot where, you're an SBS, but nope, no, there's no secret oaths to be taken, then you say, well, you're in violation of scripture. If he refuses to consider that at this point, then you go to the elders.

And the elders need to then confront him, and if he does not repent, he needs to be removed from the office. Okay. Okay, I appreciate that. Yes, sir. All right. Yeah, it's a serious thing.

Yeah, it is. Yes, sir. All right, brother. Okay. God bless. All right.

Take care, brother. All right. Okay. All right.

Let's go to Jock from North Carolina. Welcome, man. You're on the air. Hey, Jock, I'm reading through the book of Acts, and I see that there's this sequence of things people believe, and they become Christians, and then they, in sort of a separate act, they receive the Holy Spirit.

And then their Holy Spirit, when they receive this Holy Spirit, there's some type of manifestation of the Holy Spirit in their life. My question to you is, is this normal? Yes. Mm-hmm. Okay.

So you're not a cessationist, is that correct? No way. Absolutely not. Okay. I'm not either.

I'm just curious, you know, your stance. Mm-hmm. I guess my question is, okay, I'm going along here, so I'm reading Paul, and he's in the Epistle, and he continues to say, and they receive the same Spirit as we receive, and the way that, you know, Peter talks, again, in the book of Acts, is that when he preaches to the Gentiles, you know, it's evident they have the Holy Spirit by the manifestations of the gifts, and so, I mean, so my question, I guess, is, why isn't this more prevalent in our churches? You are asking an incredibly good question, and I wish you had called earlier so we could talk about it. You're free to call tomorrow about it, but in the meantime...

I'll call tomorrow. Yeah. I mean, we've got two minutes in the show left, or a minute and a half, but I've written an article, What is the Gift of the Holy Spirit?, and it goes through Acts 2.38, next 10.45.

What you're talking about is Acts 2 and Acts 10, and I'll give you the summation. I've done a good study on this. I've written this article. I went through every instance of the phrase. It's only two.

I went through stuff, and I looked at it, and I am convinced the gift of the Holy Spirit is the movement of the charismatic gifts. It's not His indwelling. I'll go to Carmen. Look it up. Okay.

Thank you. Okay. All right, brother. Look it up.

They call me back. Okay? All right. And also, folks, really fast, he asked, Why is this not an issue being practiced in churches today? That's a good question. Maybe because the charismatic gift movement can be dangerous. Maybe because there's so many charlatans out there.

Maybe because people don't want to embarrass themselves or make mistakes. I don't know. There's a lot of possibilities, but the thing is, the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 14, pursue spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. This is not just for the Corinthian church at the time. It's for the church as a whole. In fact, God says that in 1 Corinthians 1, 7 that you not lack any charismatic gift while you're waiting for the return of Christ.

So these are available to us. You go to Acts 2, 38 and Acts 10, 45 for this, and the gift of the Holy Spirit is concomitant with the charismatic movement. This is for the church today. But why is it not practiced in the church? That's a good question. And we can talk about that tomorrow.

I know I'm raising some eyebrows, particularly to the Calvinists. Hey, we'll be right back. No, we won't. We'll be back tomorrow, by God's grace. We'll talk to you then. See you. Bye. Another program powered by the Truth Network.