Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick live. Today's date is December 6th, 2023.

Not quite a day of infamy, but we're getting there. And if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. And let's see, if you want to email me, you can do that, too. Just email me at info at CARM.org, I-N-F-O, info at CARM, C-A-R-M, dot O-R-G. And you can just do it in the title, you know, radio question, radio comment. And also, just let you know that we're having a matching funds drive this month of December. We're going to be sending out a newsletter soon about it as well. If you want to support us and you enjoy the show, all you got to do is just go to CARM.org, forward slash donate. And whatever you donate will be doubled. So, whatever it is, it's really simple, it's really easy, it does help us a great deal.

We do need it, and may the Lord bless you in your efforts to support the furthering of his kingdom. All right, let's get to Mike from St. Petersburg, Florida. Mike, welcome.

You're on the air. Thank you, Matt. I've become a big fan here. I listened to your Eternal Security exposition a couple of days ago, and I thought that was really, I mean, in the amount of time you took, it was terrific and very biblical. And so, I went on to, this is just a background to my question here.

So, I went on to your site, I signed up for your newsletter. And then I saw a post on there that I never had even heard anybody ask the question before, did Jesus commit suicide? And I read that and I went, well, you know, you gave some different, you know, causal backgrounds and all that. And then I read some articles on suicide from a Christian standpoint.

I'm getting to my question here. But many of the articles said suicide is not condemned in the Bible, and it cannot be proved that it's condemned in the Bible. And my question was, as I was reading these articles, and because I'd never run across this question before, why did Augustine change the, basically, the entire, you know, Catholic and all this, everybody said that you can't go to heaven if you commit suicide. And that was very contrary to what you taught on eternal security a couple days ago.

So, that just hit me and I'm glad I got in to ask you that. Well, as great as Augustine was, I don't agree with him on everything, and he's not infallible. He was just a guy, and he actually changed his views on a few things throughout his life. But nothing in the Bible condemns suicide as unforgivable. So, there are accounts of suicide, for example, when Samson said to the boy who's holding his hand, let me feel, you know, feel the pillars.

And this is in 16, so as he pushed the pillars, well, he killed himself in the process. But he killed the Philistines. And then Saul said he was an armor bearer. Yeah, and he had to ask God for the strength to do it. Uh-huh, and God gave him the strength. And then there was Samuel, where Saul said he was an armor bearer. You know, draw your sword and pierce me through, and he wouldn't do it.

So, Saul took his own sword and fell on it. And so, we have lots of accounts like this, and I'm not advocating suicide at all. But some people say, well, it's not an unforgivable sin.

No, nothing in the Bible says it's unforgivable. So, suicide is a taking of your own life. Now, there are different reasons for suicide, too. What if you are, you know, a soldier. You've been captured by the enemy.

They're torturing you, and you realize you're going to crack. And you're going to tell them something that, you know, will result in the death of a lot of people. And you kill yourself so that doesn't happen.

Okay. We would say it's a noble suicide. Or what about a father who knowingly steps in front of his family to burn in, say, a shooting, knowing he'll probably get killed. Well, there's a noble suicide as well. You wouldn't say he goes to hell.

So, what do you do with someone who just gets depressed? And they don't like their life, and they take their own life. Well, I would say it's sinful. It's taking it out of God's hands and taking your own life.

But nothing in the Bible says that it's unforgivable. And we can get into some logic issues because if we have a suicide that's done by a Christian, well, if you're really a Christian, you know, there's a couple of factors here. One is, generally speaking, the people who commit suicide are manually stressed.

And stress, long periods of stress, can reduce endorphins, and it can cause brain rewiring, hyperdepression, all of this stuff, and it can spiral. So, you are not in your right mind, and then people will kill themselves sometimes. So, that's an intentional suicide.

We had a friend here who's a Christian, and he got depressed, very depressed. This is a true story, very, very depressed. And he got a gun, and he walked a couple of miles to a hospital.

I don't know all the details. He walked to a hospital and was outside the emergency room and around the corner to call the cops on him. And he tried to commit suicide by cop, and they wouldn't shoot him. He kept saying, shoot me, shoot me, and he wouldn't do it.

They wouldn't do it until he raised his gun at him, and then they shot him because he's going to shoot. And so, is he going to hell? I wouldn't say so, you know. Interestingly enough, I was watching a Fringe episode, a science fiction show, and he set up, you know, the character in there set up his own suicide by cop, and the cop that shot him was a woman cop, one of the stars, and said, well, he was a religious man, and he knew that he couldn't go to heaven if he committed suicide. And that was an interesting thing, just a couple of days before reading your articles there. And I just wondered why Augustine, yeah, that's, I mean, I'm amazed. I never ran across the subject really before this week.

I don't know why I'm running across it this week, but wow. You know, suicide is not unforgivable. Let's just say that someone is redeemed by the Lord, which means that all his sins are forgiven, past, present, and future. If it's not the case that all of his sins are forgiven but he's a Christian, how is it possible to be a Christian without all your sins forgiven?

It doesn't make any sense. Some Christians, what they'll do is they'll say, well, your sins are only forgiven up to the point when you believe. Then you've got to work to get yourself saved.

That's a flat-out heresy. And so there's a lot of variance in this. And so I would say that someone who does that isn't automatically not a believer. Maybe they were super depressed. You could have medicines that play with your brain and do stuff. And I remember back when I was younger, I had a bout of depression that was pretty bad. And suicidal thoughts were there.

I was never going to do anything. But I understand what happens in the spiral of depression. And, you know, you fight through it and you come out of it and people survive. But there are people who, what they'll do is they'll get so depressed and their chemicals in their brain get so whacked, they can't even think right. They can't drive properly. And they might do something that causes their own death, either deliberately or accidentally. Well, if Christ has paid for all their sins, then they're forgiven and they go to heaven.

So people might not like that. Well, it's a startling example. Is that forgivable? Yeah, it's a startling example of what you were talking about, about all sins. It's just a sin. It's a very grievous sin.

And it's one you can't repent from, you know, as I think one of your articles said in there, because it's the last thing you do, obviously. But if it's not the unforgivable sin, that makes eternal security that much more startling to me. Startling as in good or bad?

Oh, no, good. I mean, startling as in, wow, you know, like I'm in his hands and nothing's ever going to take me out of his hands and all of that, you know. I mean, that's so wonderful. I can't even express it.

Right. Probably going to be a loss of reward in heaven for an ignoble suicide, a noble suicide I wouldn't have a problem with. You know, like someone stepping in the way of something and he dies because of it to save someone else. You know, that's a noble suicide. He's actually making a decision to save someone else at his own expense. Well, that's noble. So there's different kinds. Then you have what happens if someone, they do something that they shoot themselves, say, and then they realize they're in the process of dying and they regret it.

Now they have repentance. What do you do? We have a family member, and I won't get into the details of who, but this is true. In fact, I'll tell you the really story. I don't get to tell the story very often.

Okay. This is my wife's brother. He had brothers, and his wife had had a stroke, and so my wife and I had to go and help him pack.

He was moving, and his son was autistic and really bad autistic. At any rate, long story short, I was driving home after a couple, three days of being there, just packing and packing. I had to get home and do some work, and I'm a quarter of the way home.

It's a five-hour drive, and this is true. The impression to turn around was so strong, it was one of the strongest things I've felt in years. I still remember where I was when I decided to turn around and call my wife. I said, I'm coming back. I don't know what it is, but I've got to come back. I went back, and she said, thank you.

I'll just forego the other stuff I have to do. I've got to stay here. So that day or that evening, about 2 o'clock in the morning, I said, knock on the door. My wife and I were in bed and knocking on the door, and there's police right there. The daughter had burned herself alive in a public bathroom, killed herself. Oh, my gosh.

Oh, yeah. Horrible way to go. That's why I had to stay. It was God knew. It really was. It was an incredibly strong impression.

It was. So I ended up having to do their funeral and other stuff. But anyway, the thing is, people do things, and you realize that they're going to have regret as soon as they're starting the process of killing themselves. Like in that one, once it's started, you're done, but you're going to be in pain for a little while. Then you can regret it, but what do you do? So there's all kinds of variables that are the case with suicide. That's why I wrote in my article different kinds. Can I ask you a professional question based on your profession? Or if you've got to go, I'll be done here. No, go ahead. What is it?

What do you got? Well, I was wondering how you would approach preaching a funeral of a suicide if they're a Christian. Would you go full bore with the gospel and all that? Oh, I did. This person was an anti-Christian, and I still preach the gospel.

Did you really? I've had to do my wife's family members. Yeah, I've had to do several funerals over the years, and family members on my wife's side who are unbelievers. So what I do is I talk about the good stuff that they did, relatively speaking, and then I give the gospel. I have an analogy I use.

It's a devotional I wrote. Death is a rude visitor. It comes into your home, and it breaks things, and it ruins things, and it leaves marks everywhere, and it crashes its way through and then leaves, and you're left to clean up the mess. Wow. Stuff like that. There's the music.

Yeah, well, I'm a good friend of mine. Oh, well, you gotta go. We gotta go. I'll take off. There's a break.

Yeah, there's a break, buddy. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. All right, man.

God bless. All right, Mike. You too. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

Please stay tuned when we open line 877-2072276. Be right back. All right, and welcome back to the show.

Let's see, the next longest-waiting person is Albert from New Jersey. Welcome. Hi, God bless you. God bless. So my question is, I read your article regarding the Catholics worship Mary.

It was an excellent article, by the way. And I still have, I don't want to say doubt, but the Catholics, they assert themselves that they're the original church, and technically, they're right in that department. But what really was the original church? Because I know back then that Christianity was highly illegal in the Roman Empire. So the fact that the Catholic Church was the first, I don't think that's right.

No, it's not. No, they look at themselves as the authoritarian structure through which salvation comes. That they are, therefore, the true church. And that they have the authority, they have the priesthood, they have the worship of Mary, adoration of Mary, and all the stupidity that they do. And they'll say, we are the true church. We gave you the Bible.

I guess we're tired of the idolatry. Ecclesiality is what it is. And so, no, they're not the first church.

The first church, we have to define what the word church is, because it has different meanings in the scriptures, and it's used in different ways. It can mean a local body. It can mean a universal body. It can mean the body of Christ.

It's indwelt. It can mean a local ecclesiastical structure. And so, I've done a word study on every single usage in the New Testament, and then categorized it and put it in the graph.

You can go in Carmen, you can see it, or on a graph at a table. And so, when people say the original church, we have to define, what do you mean by original church? What is the church? Well, the church is the body of Christ. Well, then, that would mean that whoever had received Christ and trusted Christ is part of the church. And that's the original church right there. Now, do you need a pope?

Nope. Now, they'll say that Peter's the first pope, and it's not. They go to Matthew 16 and 18, and I can talk about that. But they do that kind of a thing, and it's just ridiculous. And the Catholic Church is an apostate false religion, full of idolatry and works righteousness. It's just not a Christian religion. So, they're not the original church. They're not the first church. You can't even define what that is.

Well, they can't even define what it is. And there's no way to prove that they had the authority of all this, you know, bishops and all this stuff going down. I guess we're tired of hearing it from Catholics. We're the true church.

We have the authority. Shut them up. Exactly, yeah. For real, for real. Go away.

Thank you. Right, I agree. It's just like for the last couple of days, I just had this battle in my head, like, wait, this can't be right, but why do I keep thinking about it? You know what I mean? Yeah, it's an important topic. But, see, the Catholics, you know, they have their comebacks for all of this stuff that I've said, and I have my comebacks for what they said. Oh, yeah, they do.

Right. Yeah, I've discussed this countless times over years and years and years. But if they're the, I always say, if you're the true church, then how come you don't have the same authority the apostles did?

Because they could heal and raise the dead on demand. Where's your authority to do that? Let's see it. You have the same authority as the apostles, right?

Okay, let's see it. Exactly, okay. Thank you very much. I really cleared things up when you said that the church is really anyone that has faith in Jesus Christ, because that's correct, that's correct. And whenever I pray, that's what I mean. Like, I elaborate when I pray, and I say the church worldwide, meaning, you know, you, me, everyone that believes in Jesus Christ.

Thank you very much, Matt. In fact, if you go to CARM, no problem. If you go to CARM and type in church table, church table. It's a table that I did.

And you can go through, and I've gone through every single occurrence. There's 114 occurrences of the word church. It's a body of Christ, a gathering of people, local churches, the people of God, an ecclesiastical body. So the word for church in Greek is ekklesia. Well, it's also used of just a bunch of people getting together.

You know, Acts 19, 32, some are shouting one thing, some shouting another, for the assembly was in confusion. That's the ekklesia. And so, you know, it's just there's, you can check it out, you know. Yeah, yeah, I have it right here. It's the Matthew 16, 18, and it has the verses and the addresses, and then it'll have body of Christ. Yeah, no, I found it.

It's from 2013. Thank you very much, Mr. Slick. Yeah, you're welcome.

Well, God bless. All right, we'll see you. Thank you. Okay. Now, before we get going, sorry about that. Marsha, Marsha, Marsha, this gave us a $100 rant in Rumble. Hey, thank you so much.

That's the biggest we've ever had. And praise God, thank you very much. And that'll be doubled, actually, because at the end of the year, whatever supports the ministry. So there you go. All right, you can do that very easily. And what that is, for those who don't know, is you can go to rumble.com forward slash MattSlickLive, all one word, and then you can join in watching me do the radio show here in my office.

But also what's really cool is that there are a bunch of people in the chat room, and we have great conversations and stuff like that. So there you go for that. All right, let's get the next longest one is David from Kansas City. Dave, welcome. You're on the air.

Thank you. I'm going to debate the Torah keeper on TikTok tonight or tomorrow night. He's going to debate me on two fronts. I think I can handle, he's going to debate me about the Trinity. He thinks Trinity keepers are Baal worshippers. And the second thing he's going to debate me on is that we're antinomian. Can you give me some pointers on how we keep the law and debate him on that point?

We don't. Okay, let's get our theology right. So we have died to the law of Romans 7, 1 through 4. We're not obligated to keep the law in order to be saved. And the verses for that are Romans 3, 28, Romans 4, 1 through 6, Romans 5, 1, Titus 3, 5, you know, Galatians 2, 16, 2, 21.

Those are the verses you need to know. And we have died with Christ, Romans 6, 6, Romans 6, 8. So Christians are not obligated to keep the law in order to keep salvation, maintain salvation. Christ is the one who did that for us. So what I tell people, I teach them this, and I say you're still under the law because you're not dead in Christ. You've not died to the law, therefore you're on your way to hell.

And this is, it's a tough thing to say, but we need to get through them, to them, and teach them. Now, what law do we keep? Well, we keep the law of love. We love God, love our neighbor. And Jesus said, this is a new law I give to you, that you love one another. John 13, 35, you can go to there. So this is what we're obligated to do is to love one another because Jesus says, by this all name, we'll know you're my disciples if you have love for one another. This is what Jesus wants us to do. And so if we just love God and love our neighbor, we're going to accidentally do the other stuff. But if you're going to say that you have to do this stuff to be saved, then you're just, I would just, I flat out tell them, I just say you're a non-Christian, and if you died right now, you would go to hell for your false gospel.

Yeah, well, they're telling me I'm going to hell, so it's a two-way street there because I don't hate the Torah. Hold on. And I don't. Yeah, but they're, yeah, we'll get back. Okay, we've got a break coming up. So hold on, okay? We'll tackle this when we get back. Okay. Hey, folks, be right back after these messages.

Talk about the law as it relates to our justification and salvation. Be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, you can. In fact, someone just, sorry, 877-207-2276. Someone took my article, Death as a Rude Visitor, and put it on their website and claimed it. They don't give me documentation. They don't put a link to it, and that's not good. Every now and then we'll find articles that people have taken, that I've written, and they just take it and put it on their website. It's called theft and plagiarism. They need to ask permission, and if they do an entire article, we have rules for that. They have to put in a nofollow tag in the HTML and the header, and they have to document where it came from and use by permission.

It's just simple stuff, but just to take it and put it on their own site. I've had to deal with this before, and what I've done is warn them. I say, look, you've broken the copyright laws here, and as a Christian not supposed to do that, please remove it. And I had one guy actually say, no, he wrote it, and I knew for a fact he lied. And I said, no, I can prove you did not write it, and I went to, there's a way to prove it. And I did, and said, now I'm going to send it to your provider, and they will probably shut your site down because there's legality. You have to take care of things when plagiarism is unproven.

And he took it down quickly. And so Christians, look, if you want to borrow someone's work, cite it, and ask permission to use it. As a matter of fact, I just got some e-mails from some people.

They want to use some things I've written in a book, and they asked permission. I said, we want to do it. Here's how it's going to be. Like I said, hey, praise God. Thank you. Go for it.

Use it. And they were very appreciative of that. That's all we ask. So anyway, there you go. Let's get back on with Dave from Kansas City.

Dave, you still there? Yeah. I know it was pretty bad that the Southern Baptist President plagiarized all the sermons too, so. Yeah, we had a local pastor here do the same thing.

They had to let him go. He was taking all of John MacArthur's sermons and using them as his own. So on the antinomian, they're claiming that, you know, James said, you love me, you will keep my commandments. And they want to say that keeping the commandments is the whole Torah. Yeah, that's right. And we say, yeah, of course, if you love God, you'll keep his commandments.

But where does this say that's what saves you? And we agree. We don't go out lying and cheating and stealing. You can't call us antinomian.

That's not what our position is. You're bearing false witness, which means you're breaking the law of God. How can you be then saved if you're willingly misrepresenting us and bearing false witness against us publicly when we don't believe that? And doesn't the Bible say whoever keeps the whole law gets tumbled in one point, become guilty of all, James 2.10? So how is it that if you're going to bear false witness against us, James 2.10 condemns you and says you're willingly doing this, therefore you're guilty of the whole law? You can't go to Galatians 3.10, which as for as many as are the works of the law, render a curse for it is written.

Curse is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law to perform them. I ask them, are you keeping the entire law? Are you? Well, I'm trying. Oh, so you're not. So then you're cursed. Yeah, you are cursed. And then you just repeat, James 2.10, Galatians 3.10, James 2.10, you're guilty of everything.

If you break one, you're guilty of everyone. Everything, Galatians 3.10, you're under a curse. This is what the Bible says.

You're the one preaching the words of the devil. You've got to say stuff like this to them. Oh, man, yeah.

Oh, yeah, they say it to me all the time. So, yeah, I'm not afraid of that. Oh, they can come. Tell them to come on air here.

I'd love that if they were to call me the child of the devil and things like that would be entertaining. I'd deal with it. All right.

All right. Yeah, they're wannies. They're theological wannies.

They're not very good. They're not educated. They don't understand biblical theology. And they are being used by the devil to put people under bondage. And you go to Galatians 3, Galatians 5 talks about this. Actually, Romans 3.4.5, Galatians 3.4.5 are the places you want to go to refute their stupidity, biblical stupidity. This is serious because what they're preaching is actually a false gospel leads to damnation.

This is very serious. Oh, yeah, well, they say that the Trinity is made up and all that, that Jesus was not divine. He was just the son of David.

Well, they can go to Galatians. I mean, Hebrews 1.8. But of the son, he says, thy throne, O God, is forever and ever. Why does God call Jesus God? Here's one of the things I say about the Trinity.

I debate people. I say, is it true or false? They say it's false. I say, oh. I'll say, first of all, I want to ask you what is the Trinity so that we are arguing about the same thing.

And a lot of times they don't know. It's three gods. Well, that's not what we teach. Yes, it is. No, it's not.

That's not what the Trinity is. Okay. And you could keep telling them. And then that's when I say, oh, you're bearing false witness willingly now. This is what's wrong with you.

And people will hear this in the room and they'll know. And then I'll say, so how has the Trinity arrived at? Oh, through lies and deception. No, that's not how it's arrived at. What's the method that theologians use to arrive at the doctrine of the Trinity? Because it's a method of logic and it's a pattern of Scripture that they're looking at. So the Trinity is true if that systematic approach is true. It's false if the systematic approach is false. So what is that systematic approach? And if you don't know it, you don't know if the Trinity is true or false.

So what is that? And then no one knows how to arrive at it. I say, then you don't even know what it is.

You don't even know how it's arrived at. So you're telling me that's false, huh? I'll say, there you go, bearing false witness again.

Then Galatians 3, 10, James 2, 10 on them. Okay. Okay. All right. Thanks. All right, buddy. You're welcome. All right, man. God bless.

All right. Let's get to Alan from Virginia. Alan, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. How's it going today? Oh, it's going just doing radio.

So what do you got? Uh, so I'm looking for Christmas presents and I want to give two people an NASB 95 Bible. Do you have any recommendations on who I should buy it from?

Whoever publishes it. It's from the Lachman Foundation in La Habra, California. And I know that because I lived like 12 miles from them. And I went to their foundation and got a Bible off the shelf.

It was awesome. But you can go, it's called the Lachman Foundation. You can contact them or just say NASB 95 and see if you go online so you can find it. But I don't know. You know, I don't know where you could get it. Okay. Some of the things I would just be concerned about is some who would portray themselves to be NASB 95, but actually aren't. Is that a big, big concern anywhere? Not that I'm aware of. It's a copyright issues too. So anyone who would violate that would be in trouble.

So I've never heard any problem like that. Okay. Okay. What kind of material for the outside do you think is good? I guess it depends.

I could do a little more flexible or hardcover one. What do you think is kind of the... Just gold. It's a plate of gold on both sides. You know, I think that would be good.

Silver would be good too. Or mirrors. Or mirrors. Every time you look at it, you're going to see yourself when you open up the pages.

So I don't know. The Bible I have, I don't carry it very much. I used to carry it around all the time. I used to have this big mockin Bible with ribbons and notes and wide margin and all this stuff.

And now I just sit on my computer all day and I type and I have so much memorized, I don't use it. But when I go to church, I just bring my phone. And I have one of those phones that folds open. A Galaxy Fold, which I love. So I use my Greek and I go...

It's just better. But the one I have, I might take it someplace. I want people to see me reading it. Then I'll take it on a plane or something like that. I have a small one.

It's about seven inches by four inches. NASB, I'll use that and it's just got a flexible cover. So other than that, I don't know. I'll take it potentially one that has Greek and Hebrew with it, but I feel like that would add too much weight and too much space on the page.

It would. There's different ones that are like that. But you can do two books and you can get an interlinear Bible with them. It just depends what you want to do and if people are going to even use it. So it just depends what you want.

What's that? What does interlinear mean? Interlinear is a Bible that has, for example, they do it different ways. The top will be the English and then underneath it will be the Greek or vice versa. But generally speaking, it's the Greek on top or the Hebrew on top. And then it's the words exactly translated underneath. And then you can see the woodenness of some of the, you know, how languages are different, you know, and stuff like that.

And then sometimes they'll have little keys to them. You can have a parsing guide. You know, it's like the word ami, which is iota. I mean, epsilon, iota, mu, epsilon, I believe it is, ami, or iota.

That's right, iota. And it's the first person singular, present, active, indicative. And so if they, you know, you can tell what that is. Well, most people, what does that mean? It's of no use. So generally speaking, an interlinear just has the Greek and the English underneath it.

And it kind of helps them with studies. Okay, there's the music, buddy. Yeah. All right, man. Thank you. Okay.

God bless. All right. Hey, let's get back to Alex from Orlando. I know who that guy is. He's a loser. Right back after these messages. He's a friend of mine.

Don't worry about it. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Last segment of the hour, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. By the way, just to let you know, we're doing a matching funds drive for the rest of December. If you want to support us, whatever you donate will be doubled. And all you've got to do is go to CARM.org forward slash donate. You can also email us. Excuse me, I meant to say mail us.

We have the PO box address at the bottom of every page on the CARM website, the PO box. So a lot of people support us that way. We really do.

And we have to check the PO box a couple times a week. And we answer stuff that people send us and they support us. And we're so thankful of that. And we're going to send out thank you letters and all that kind of stuff. We really enjoy it.

But anyway, there are different ways of doing it. So CARM.org forward slash donate will give you the information for the PO box as well as that. We appreciate it. Let's get to Alex from Orlando. My first question is if I send in a bag of rocks, how does that get matched? Well, that would be interesting. We'd have to see what kind of rocks they are and see if our friend would match it. And he'd send a bag of rocks too. Rocks off the street.

Or how about a rock out of Israel, one of the ones that did not cry out? Oh, there you go. Oh, you got me on that one. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what do you got, big man? Because now I sound like a crazy man.

Well, yeah, that's obvious. Come on, you know, without saying it, you know, I mean, just what it is. So what do you got, buddy?

What's up? So I have to talk to, I have a pastor I know overseas, and I have to talk to him about some things. But one of the issues, he just sent me a long message. He's dealing with, one of the issues he's dealing with is there's people in his church that have been listening to guys online, and these guys are full preterists. And now some of the church members are believing in full preterists, and he's having a difficult time because this is kind of going through his church.

What would your advice be to this pastor? He needs to go to Acts chapter 1, verse 9, and he needs to anchor himself on Acts 1, 9 through 11. Absolutely just go over it and over it and over it, and I'll read it. After these, what I'm going to do is I'll read it like I read it to the preterists, the full preterists, and this is what I do. I say Acts 1, 9 through 11 refutes full preterism. It does.

It's done. But they don't realize they're on a sinking ship, and they don't care. So here's the thing, Acts 1, 9 through 11. And after he had said these things, he was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received him out of their sight. And I'll say, the cloud, would you agree with me that the cloud was in the sky? Well, yeah, because he's lifted up, right? And a cloud in the sky. That's how he went up into the sky, right? And they say, yes, because they already know what I'm going to do with it.

And sometimes they fight me. I say, does it say cloud? Yes. Is that the cloud in the sky?

Because he went up. Well, it means the cloud in the sky? And you've got to do this with them, okay? Yes, it's the cloud in the sky.

Good. And as they were gazing intently into the sky, oh, hey, so it really was a cloud in the sky, wasn't it? Because they were gazing up into the sky.

Would you agree? And they have to say yes, because that's what it says. It says, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them, and they said, men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? So I ask them, where are they looking? Are they looking into the ground? No, into a forest?

No. Where are they looking? And they don't want to answer, but I have to force them. And they say, John, what does the Scripture say? Where are they looking?

Well, where does the Scripture say it? What are they doing? Where is it? Right there.

Okay. Where are they looking? You know, it takes ten minutes sometimes for them to finally say they're looking into the sky. They're so brainwashed, right?

Yeah, yeah. This Jesus, oh, yeah, this Jesus who's taken up from you into heaven will come in just the same way as you have watched him go into heaven. So as you watch him go up into heaven, that's how he's going to come back. Now what they'll do is they'll say, well, in the same manner or in like manner. It doesn't mean the exact same way.

This is what they do. You mean, so he returned in the armies of Rome, right? Yeah, that's right.

That's what it means. So the armies of Rome, did they come out of the sky? No. Were they taken up in the clouds? No. Did they come back in the clouds?

No. The clouds of war, they'll say. They just think, you know, they just do stupid stuff. The clouds of war, the clouds of judgment. You know, and I'd say, yeah, don't forget the clouds of stupidity. Okay, there's those too. All right. And I just get on them.

I do. I don't give them any rope. I just get on them and I just, I hammer them constantly because they are violating scripture.

They are leading people astray. And I'd say, this is how he's going to come back the same way. So is that what's going to happen? And I'll say, furthermore, furthermore. You go to 1 Thessalonians 4, 16. The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout.

Whoa. And the voice of the archangel and the trumpet of God the dead in Christ will rise first and we who are alive and remain will have caught up together and meet him in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. How's he coming back?

That's how he's coming back. And I say to the full preacher, I say, you guys, you guys are heretics. You are teaching something false.

Acts 1, 9-11 refutes you as does 1 Thessalonians 4, 16 through chapter, before 16 through 18, refutes you. Well, so what do they say to the 1 Thessalonians 4? What do they usually say to that? Well, sometimes they deny there's a rapture. Sometimes they'll say, what they do, this is the basic methodology. They will, they spiritualize everything.

They spiritualize anything and everything they can. He descends from heaven. That means in the judgment of Rome, of the armies.

What? That's what it means because the judgment of God comes out of heaven, doesn't it? Right, Matt? Isn't that what it says, Matt?

Come on, Matt, isn't it true? They'll do that. They'll talk to me like that. They'll say, isn't that the judgment comes out of heaven? Yeah, that's right. But God also, judgment comes out of a plague on earth. No, comes out of heaven, right? So when it descends out of heaven, that's what it means. So when it says the Lord will descend from heaven, it means he's not descending from heaven. Is that right? That's a point I can drag him into. So I'll say, so let me get this straight.

So when it says that he descends from heaven, it means he's not descending from heaven. Is that correct? And you see? Yeah, yeah.

No, I got you. Okay, that's good. That's good to know. Yeah, I remember you said a while back it was a heresy, and I never really thought much about it, but then this pastor reached out to me, and he said some of his members are growing cold. They're becoming less joyful. They're becoming less loving.

And I'm like, man, that is a heresy because that is the direct fruit of heretical teaching. Yep. Give him my cell number. Tell him to call me. Okay?

Yeah, he's pretty distraught right now, but I'm going to talk to him and I'll mention you. Yeah, for sure, because it's giving him a big issue. And then here's the other concern. So people are accusing him of being authoritarian now because he's trying to snip it in the bud. He's trying to tell them, hey, don't listen to these guys. Don't pay attention to these guys.

These guys are not teaching the Bible. So now he's getting that backlash as well, and he's very discouraged right now. That's his job.

That's his job. And if they want dead serious, fly me out there and I'll do a seminar on it, and I'll teach on why full preterism sucks canal water. Okay?

That might be something we can do, yeah. I'm not kidding, because this kind of stuff, I'll snip it in the bud. I'll be the one they hate, but I can go through it. I can do it very carefully.

I can go through the Scriptures. I can go through and do a PowerPoint presentation and show, because this is important, this kind of stuff. You might think, well, why did he go clear out there to do that?

Because these are the kinds of things that cause church splits and cause hatred within the body of Christ that cause problems all over, and it spreads like cancer. So it's worth getting in there and doing it, and I'm not him. And that's another psychological factor. You fly someone in who's not him, and then they'll listen to him, you know? You know how that is.

Yeah, no, no. I know how that goes. So you would also, like, if you find out, you know, my friend once told me, he's like, yeah, this guy's a great preacher. I listen to him online, but he's a full preterist. But, you know, he's got every good stuff. You would probably not recommend anyone listen to a full preterist, right?

I wouldn't do that. Because if he can't get that right in Acts 1, 9-11, it tells you how he's going to come back. It wasn't in the armies of Rome. He said, come on, that's ridiculous.

I camped out on that pericope for hours with people. That's what it says right here, but it says right here. You know, I go over it and over it and over it, and they'll, let's move on. I'm not moving on. That's what it says. This refutes you.

Why do you want to ignore it? I explained it. The clouds are symbolic. Really? So he went up in the symbolic clouds? I mean, I just keep going at him. And then you cross-reference it to 1 Thessalonians 4.

Okay. Isn't there a verse where it's like our hope and our eternal love, Jesus Christ, who will come back? Isn't there a verse like that? Yeah, there's lots of verses like that. Where it says he will come back?

Yeah, 2 Thessalonians 1, 7, for example. And go to verse 6, for after all, it is only just for God to repay the affliction, those with affliction, those who afflict you, and to give relief to those who are afflicted to us as well, when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire. Yeah, yeah.

It's coming back to deal retribution. See, that's full preterism. No, it's not, you know. So much heresy, so little time.

But I would be glad to work on it. I mean, things like that really get me. When somebody gets it, like if it was annihilationism, I'd fly out and teach how bad it is, or universalism, or full preterism. Partial preterism is okay. Full preterism is bad.

And women pastors and elders is bad, you know? Well, yeah, let's just, I don't want to give his name, but we can just ask the listeners to pray for him. He's overseas. That's all I'll say right now.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I'll just, because like two months ago, he reached out to me, and he told me there was a situation. He didn't tell me what it was.

Now he told me what it was, so it's obviously not gotten better, gotten worse. I'll talk to him and coach him through. I mean, I'll help him. I'm not saying I got all the answers or everything, but you know, I mean, come on, it's what I do.

And I had to tell him, and we could talk, or all three of us could do a Skype call or whatever it is, and we can do something, and we can go through stuff, and I can say, hey, look, look. And he's got to realize that this is what happens, separating people. Truth does that, and his job is to guard the sheep, and if people leave because of it, then he's done his job. His job is not to keep them all together, but it is to go out and find the lost sheep, but his job is to teach the truth and refute error. And if he's doing that, and those who don't have a sound understanding of stuff then want to leave, then he's done well. Not that we want churches to divide and stuff, but he's done his job, okay?

Yeah, I think he needs to be reminded of that. That's good. I appreciate that. And I'll talk to him. We'll be in touch. So I'll see what he says. All right. Sounds good. What country is he in, if you can tell me?

I'll just say it's somewhere in Central America. Okay. Well, podemos ayudar, okay? I can help. Yeah. All right? Okay. All right. Thanks, brother. We can help.

That's right. We can do it. We've got guys.

Okay. God bless everybody. Hey, folks, we're out of time, and I was just thinking we've got a guy down there who speaks Spanish.

We've got another guy down there who is Portuguese, and they're great at what they do. We can help. Anyway, hey, there you go. May the Lord bless you by his grace. We'll be back on there tomorrow, and we'll talk to you then. Have a great evening, everyone. Have a great evening.