The War In Ben Franklin's Home

Hi, this is Jem and Em from In Our Own World Podcast. My Cultura Podcast Network and Coca-Cola celebrate Hispanic Heritage Month with empowering voices like Rosalind Sanchez. My childhood was in Puerto Rico.

I moved to the States when I was almost 22 years old. I have so many dreams. I have so many ambitions. And I've been so blessed to be able to come to this country and little by little with hard work and discipline.

Check that list. I have many things that I want to continue doing and accomplish, but I was just a girl with dreams from a little island in the Caribbean. Listen to He Said, Ea Dijo Podcast hosted by Rosalind Sanchez and Eric Winter on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Coca-Cola, proud sponsor of the My Cultura Podcast Network.

Hispanic heritage is magic, baby. Guys, are you getting up multiple times a night to use the bathroom? As we get older, so do our prostates. And that can mean urinary problems that affect our sleep and quality of life.

Life is better outside the bathroom. Real Health's Prostate Complete can help you relieve those annoying and painful prostate symptoms. Available at Walmart or visit realhealth.com for more information and to order yours today. Try it risk-free with our 120-day money-back guarantee. These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA.

This product is not intended to diagnose, treat or cure any disease. Fall is just around the corner and home is the center of it all. At Ashley, seasonal decorating is a breeze with their range of designs and materials. Snuggle up on a family-friendly sectional or an ultra-modern sofa or gather outside and enjoy the crisp, cool air with a new fire pit or conversation set. From minor refreshes to total overhauls, Ashley has the essentials to make your home fall functional and fabulous.

Shop in-store or visit ashley.com today. This is Lee Habib and this is Our American Stories and we love to tell every kind of story here from art to sports to business and of course history. And we do it this day in history every day and we love books. And we've done David McCullough and the Wright Brothers and we've done that great, great book about Mark Twain's last and epic tour in his life to, well, get some money back because he'd been broke from so many adventures and misadventures in the stock market and in business. And a book review caught our attention in the Wall Street Journal and the title was The Franklin House Divided.

And here's how it started. On the 4th of July 1776, Benjamin Franklin was in Philadelphia having helped to draft the Declaration of Independence while his son, the governor of New Jersey, was under arrest in Connecticut having been branded an enemy of his country for persisting in his royal duties and opposing the revolution. In less than a year, William Franklin would be taken to the notorious Litchfield Gowl, a destination for, among others, traitors who had abused their privileges in lighter incarceration. And that led us to the guest that joins us now. The book review was for The Loyal Son, The War in Ben Franklin's House and Daniel Mark Epstein joins us now. Thanks for joining us, Daniel.

It's a pleasure to be with you. And Daniel, tell us, what drew you to this book? Well, I was always interested in Benjamin Franklin from the time I was a kid, you know, as being one of the most versatile Americans, a man who was a great inventor and probably the first great scientist in terms of electricity and, of course, everybody knows the story about Ben flying the kite. And I remember seeing the woodcut of Benjamin Franklin flying the kite with his little boy. And I wondered, what would it be like to have Benjamin Franklin as a father, I mean, a man who was not only a great inventor but created the militia in Pennsylvania in order to defend the frontier against the Indians, and then, you know, created the first postal system in Pennsylvania and the University of Pennsylvania, and then, of course, became one of the greatest American patriots during the Revolution. What would it be like to be that man's son? And then, of course, I found out that Benjamin Franklin's only son was illegitimate, a bastard, but that he was raised just as if he had been a legitimate son. And the two of them were partners in politics and in military affairs and later in diplomacy. So it was an extraordinary father-son relationship.

And the fact that they went different ways during the Revolution and that William Franklin became the governor, the royal governor of New Jersey, while his father, of course, was the greatest patriot, drove them apart. And I thought, what a tragedy and what a great story. So I actually wrote a poem about this in the 1990s. And do you have that poem?

Do I have it with me right now? Yeah. No, no, I mean, it was published long ago. And as often happens, because I was a poet before I became a biographer, several of my poems have been transformed into these larger and more complete biographies. And that's a good case of that. And that's how it really stuck with you. I mean, it went from poetry to nonfiction. And in the end, poetry is storytelling as well.

And that's what you're doing here. Talk to the listeners, because a lot of people don't know this about American history. This was no duck walk for ordinary Americans. It split families. It split fathers and sons. Some people were with the revolutionaries and the patriots. Some were with the crown. And some were just hiding under the table, hoping it would pass. How did this basically split up, particularly in the area where Franklin lived in Pennsylvania?

Of course, the numbers changed. But at the beginning, the majority of the people were against the revolution. And in fact, Benjamin Franklin and his son, in their works of diplomacy in England, tried to prevent the revolution. It was only after the British government became more and more oppressive and they sent troops to Boston that Benjamin Franklin finally became a patriot fairly late in the game around 1775. So they both resisted the revolution. As far as the numbers are concerned, by 1776, I would say a third of the American people were for the revolution. A third were against it. And the other third were just trying to blow with the wind and try to keep out of trouble.

And talk about now, just briefly, we'll open up the lid on the next segment about this father-son conflict. But were there battles out in the streets? Was this quiet? Was this simmering? What was the climate like for folks day to day?

Obviously, Franklin had something to do with newspapers as well. Talk about what it felt like then. Because today all we hear about is, my goodness, the climate today in America.

It's just so hard. But, my goodness, we have seen much tougher times in this country. Well, just as an example, during the passing of the Stamp Act, there were riots in the streets in Boston and Philadelphia. And by 1775, there was really open warfare in the streets of many cities over the various tax collectors, people protecting them, people attacking them. And by 1776, there were these provincial committees of safety who would actually hold individuals accountable if they said anything that seemed to be threatening to the movement for independence. And this was the point where Governor Franklin, you know, as the last royal governor of New Jersey, was defending the loyalists, the people who protected the crown. So it really was a revolution, I mean, it was a civil war in the streets of the major cities all over America. Indeed, it was our first civil war. I mean, that's what I got from the book.

I mean, we had one before we had one. This is Lee Habib and this is Daniel Mark Epstein and his terrific book, The Loyal Son, The War in Ben Franklin's House. More after these messages. Lee Habib here, the host of Our American Stories. Every day on this show, we're bringing inspiring stories from across this great country, stories from our big cities and small towns.

But we truly can't do the show without you. Our stories are free to listen to, but they're not free to make. If you love what you hear, go to OurAmericanStories.com and click the donate button. Give a little, give a lot.

Go to OurAmericanStories.com and give. Hey, you guys, this is Tori and Jenny with the 90210MG podcast. We have such a special episode brought to you by NerdTechODT. We recorded it at iHeartRadio's 10th poll event, Wango Tango. Did you know that NerdTechODT Remedipant 75mg can help migraine sufferers still attend such an exciting event like Wango Tango?

It's true. I had one that night and I took my NerdTechODT and I was present and had an amazing time. Here's a little glimpse of our conversation with some of our closest friends. This episode was brought to you by NerdTechODT Remedipant 75mg. Life with migraine attacks can mean missing out on big moments with friends and family.

But thankfully, NerdTechODT Remedipant 75mg is the only medication that is proven to treat a migraine attack and prevent episodic migraines in adults. So lively events like Wango Tango don't have to be missed. Hey, this is Steve Rinella, host of the Meat Eater podcast, where we cover hunting, fishing, wild foods, wildlife conservation and all things outdoors with a lot of humor and style.

Check out this clip from our show brought to you by Chevy Silverado. Make your story a strong one. I like a banded duck more than the next guy. I would not shoot a banded big game animal with a collar on it because it would feel like touched.

It would feel like it had already been less magical and wild. So you called in a big six-point bull and he's standing there broadside. You wouldn't shoot him if he had a collar on? Big bull, Steve. Big bull. Okay, sure. Yeah.

I called in three of them. Be sure to check out the Meat Eater podcast on Mondays, on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to yours. Fall is just around the corner and home is the center of it all. At Ashley, seasonal decorating's a breeze with their range of designs and materials. Snuggle up on a family-friendly sectional or an ultra-modern sofa or gather outside and enjoy the crisp, cool air with a new fire pit or conversation set. From minor refreshes to total overhauls, Ashley has the essentials to make your home fall functional and fabulous.

Shop in store or visit ashley.com today. This is Lee Habib and this is Our American Stories and we return with the author Daniel Mark Epstein and the book The Loyal Son, The War in Ben Franklin's House. Now we had talked about briefly, Daniel, what Ben Franklin was like and his remarkable contributions to this country. There were very few men with his biography. Maybe no American with his biography. And let's talk about that son.

You said he was a bastard child. Talk about his life and how he got from being Ben Franklin's son to the governor of the state and there weren't that many states back then. Well, he was, William Franklin was an extraordinary young man in his own right.

People talk about Ben Franklin as being precocious, as a businessman and a printer and a politician. But his son also was extraordinary. His son wanted a military career and so he went off and joined the King's Army at age 15. And by the time he was 18 years old, he was a captain, which was the highest rank you could attain in America without paying for it. And at that point, he retired from the army and his father got him a really good tutor and he started studying law. And then he worked for his father in the legislature, in the Assembly of Pennsylvania, so he got this political career. And then when his father got the job to go off to England as the agent for the Assembly of Pennsylvania, representing the Assembly against the proprietors who refused to be taxed, his son went with him. And in England, his son rose very quickly. He went to the bar and got his law degree in his mid-20s and shortly after that was appointed to be the governor of New Jersey. So at that point in his life, he was in his late 20s. His father was 50 in his mid-50s. He was even more powerful in the government than his father was.

So he had an extraordinary career. And so let's get down to this conflict. I mean, by the time we get to the Stamp Act, as we had indicated before, the country was in pretty much open rebellion and the Civil War was brewing. And William took a stand and Ben took a stand and talk about their final meeting in particular was remarkable.

But before we get to that, build up to that if we can. Set up that, I think, almost just tragic scene between a father and son. Well, it's really extraordinary the extent to which the two men were living in different worlds, because by 1775, two years before the actual Declaration of Independence, William had been living in America. He was the governor of New Jersey and he'd been the governor of New Jersey for more than a decade in trying to represent the king's interests in America and trying to prevent this revolution, which he knew would be a disaster. And a lot of people, even Benjamin Franklin up until 1775, thought that would be a big mistake for America to separate from the mother country. Meanwhile, his father is in England and his father is still working on behalf of the colonies, representing the colonies' interests in England against Parliament.

And he's seeing more and more corruption in England and, in the meantime, the English government is sending troops to Boston and the rest of America in order to enforce these taxation laws. And he's growing more and more bitter against the English government so that the two of them were living in different worlds. And when it finally came down to the 1776 and the Declaration of Independence, William was thoroughly on the side of the king and the crown, and his father at that point was a confirmed American patriot revolutionary.

So they just went different ways. Even before that, I think there was a certain amount of jealousy between father and son, as sometimes happens tragically. And his dad, I think, was a little bit jealous of William. So let's talk next about this father and son.

They're at loggerheads. What happens to William next as he takes his stand? The country is moving to war.

It's clearly ready for war. William's not. Well, first of all, his father came home in time to try to talk his son over to the side that he believed would be safest, that is, the side of the revolutionaries. And the two had some very, very stormy confrontations in Pennsylvania and in New Jersey, where his father visited him, and he did everything he could to try to get him to come over to the side of the revolutionaries, because that was his side and the family's side. And William refused. And William ended up being the last royal governor to do the king's business in America. He stubbornly refused to leave the governor's mansion and had to be taken away bodily and was put into the worst prison in America, the Litchfield Jail, where he was in solitary confinement with bread and water for 18 months and suffered terribly during that time. He finally was released in a prisoner's exchange, but his father had very little to do with that and eventually went back to England.

And this had to really hurt Ben Franklin. I mean, hey, it's his son, and no matter what kind of jealousies might have existed, to watch this befall, this kind of plight befall your son had to be difficult. Moreover, he's a very public figure, and it wasn't as if his son was some wallflower. He was a governor who was now in jail. How did he handle that?

Well, Franklin said nothing had ever hurt him so bad in his entire life, and you have to believe that. And there was a lot of public criticism of him for not helping his son out, but remember, he was the minister plenipotentiary to France and could not be seen as being in collusion with the Tory. So he was in a horrible – it's really a tragic situation, which really is kind of like the Revolutionary War in microcosm. And do you think he really understood his son's hardship?

I don't. No, I don't really think – I think part of the tragedy of the book, and what I finally end up saying in the end, is that these were two men who could never reconcile. Although the son wanted to, William wanted to more than his father did. They could never reconcile because they just did not understand each other. And these are two very intelligent men. So it shows you just how extreme this break between father and son can be when it happens. And in the end, the father didn't understand the son, but the son didn't understand the dad either.

I don't think so. Part of what we haven't spoken about is that at the end of the war, William became a counter-revolutionary, a violent counter-revolutionary, and this his father could not ever forgive. Yeah, and that's something we still live with.

I mean, let's face it. This book just reminds me of now, in large respect. These are struggles that are going on in America continually. The first Civil War, this Revolutionary War, the real Civil War. There have been epic fights in this country, and it splits families, and it splits friendships. And what's a takeaway for readers to entice them here?

What's one thing you would want them to walk away with as we take the past and try and connect it to the present? Well, whenever there's a huge gap between the rich and the poor, this is a place where demagogues can enter in and cause incredible amounts of mischief. And there's a way to look at the Revolutionary War that way. The taxation during the 1760s and 1770s created a bigger disparity between rich and poor. And a lot of the people who led the Revolution, they weren't your Washingtons and Jeffersons.

A lot of them were demagogues and whose names have been forgotten and rightfully forgotten. So there are definite parallels between the 1770s and the present. Well, that's a great book, a great read. We urge folks to read it.

The Loyal Son, the author is Daniel Mark Epstein, and the story is The War in Ben Franklin's House. Read it, and we're going to post this on our website. And Daniel, thank you so much for writing the book, and thanks for joining us. Thank you, it was a pleasure. You bet. This is Lee Habib. This is Our American Stories, Ben Franklin's story, his son's story.

More after these messages. Fall is just around the corner and home is the center of it all. At Ashley, seasonal decorating is a breeze with their range of designs and materials. Snuggle up on a family friendly sectional or an ultra modern sofa or gather outside and enjoy the crisp, cool air with a new fire pit or conversation set. From minor refreshes to total overhauls, Ashley has the essentials to make your home fall functional and fabulous.

Shop in store or visit ashley.com today. Attention Medicare beneficiaries. Are you getting all the benefits you need? If you have Medicare, you may now be able to get new benefits. Benefits may include eyeglasses, wellness visits, gym membership, meal delivery and hearing aids with low copay. You may even find plans with zero monthly plan premiums, zero copays on many services and zero deductibles. Call 800-832-7597.

That's 800-832-7597. Want to get away but still listen to your favorite radio stations and podcasts? Then listen up. iHeartRadio is now the onboard music partner on select Southwest flights. That means you can jam out to your favorite local radio station, even if you're flying coast to coast. Check out expertly curated stations that are perfect for kids and adults. Available on most domestic Southwest flights and perfect for a full nonstop or those pesky minutes between a movie ending and your plane touching down. So grab your headphones, raise your tray table and relax with iHeartRadio and Southwest Airlines.